A queston on Human evolution

Since sperm stores easier than eggs, my alpha Centauri colony is definitely going to have many females (and many little tubes).

[off-topic] The strategy that famously defeated Tit-for-Tat relied on having several copies of itself in the tournament. It began its matches with a hand-shaking sequence to see if it was playing against (a) TfT, (b) a copy of itself, or (c) any other strategy. In the former case it operated deliberately to limit TfT’s score; in the other cases it played TfT.

Perhaps this is analogous to some evolutionary route in biology, but I won’t guess what. :stuck_out_tongue:

As I said, the big problem with hermaphrodites is the cost of maintaining two sets of organs. Remember that in most societies until recently, the major issue was often “not enough food”. Extra equipment, extra drain on food, extra flesh consuming calories and not useful much of the time - is an expense. More calories required to keep going.

I guess that’s the other $64,000 question - is specialization better than generalist?

While is some groups - harem groups, especially - extra males would be surplus, in HG type groups, the extra males are providing food for the family. Many species rely on both parents to provide for offspring, especially when the mother is somewhat incapacitated. It’s no surprise that notable harem-type societies for humans typically only apply to the richest except in situations where unattached females and/or offspring - widows, etc. - need to be taken care of. (I.e. what does a hermaphrodite society do if both parents - or an excess number of the tribe/herd - end up pregnant and relatively incapacitated at the same time?)

Added note: the few species I’ve read about that do have hermaphrodite reproduction seem to have cyclical hermaphrodism, again - they specialize, but take turns being one or other rather than maintain two functioning sets of organs. But again, the switch-over would be an expense, especially depending on the specialization of the sexes. It’s probably a lot easier when the female simply lays eggs and forgets about them.

You can even filter the tubes’ contents pre-launch so they overwhelmingly favor female offspring. There’s no reason not to bring a couple dozen generations-worth of sperm; I hear it keeps well. Once you are down to sourcing natural sperm again you can still repeat the filtration for use in subsequent generations.

IOW, as every competent animal hubsbandrist knows, you use most of the females and very few males from each natural generation.

Sux to be a guy sometimes. :frowning:

Agree with most of your musings about hermaphrodites. But not quite the snippet above.

If we assume females are the “standard”, then we (evolution really) faces a choice: Grow a set of testes in her, or grow a whole male animal to carry those testes around. Clearly simple food / energy efficiency favors the former, not the latter.

Looking at it another way:

If we have the traditional one male and one female organism we can reproduce at the rate of one womb. If we magically hermaphrodify :slight_smile: them both now we have two wombs. Double the reproductive pace for just a couple more pounds of organs. In general high fecundity is a beneficial trait. This approach is certainly more efficient in terms of total parental food consumption to produce two offspring.

From the above I amateurishly conclude that there must be some high functional barrier against hermaphrodism or else it’d be the standard on Earth. Either that or path dependency scores another goal for second-rate solutions coming out on top.

Sex: it’s the VHS or QWERTY of evolution*. :smiley:

======

  • Yes, I know the stories of both those beating technically superior alternatives, e.g. Betamax, are mostly BS. It makes a good punch line though.

C p.jribc;.e yd. Ekrpat t.fxrape ao x.cbi xf uap yd. gol.pcrpw abe a jrpp.jycrb yr yd. nagidaxnf oyglce abe ncmcycbi tngei. ru a "<>PY t.fxxrape abe yd. mora cbygcyck. ru yrrn e.ocib jrbj.lyo[[.k.b a jak.mab ucigp.e rgy yday ab aq. lprxaxnnf ,foto x.yy.p ,cya a raven. day xaocjannf mayjd.o dr, d. lnabo yr go. cy (anew C mcidi anew yd. anldabgm.pcj t.fxrape ogg.nf dao a jrmm.bogpay. pant cb dgmab jgnygpan dcoyrpf ao yd. ucpoy dabe yarn)w shy auy.p a leaf rp y,r ru lpajycj.w ug.n.e xf obrxxcod lpce. yr br imane e.ip…w C all.jcay.e cyo e.ocibw xgy ,ao yryannf ungmmrq.e ,d.b C dae yr yfl. rb yd. t.fxrape go.e xf 99v999vvv l.pj.by ru ann e.kcj.o (ogjord ao mf yfl.,pcy.p ay ,rpt)w abe yday ,ao ydayv

Either Leo just had a stroke :eek: or his phone has started posting on its own from his pocket. Either that or maybe Siri has finally become an independently thinking AI. Who knew she’d natively speak Martian? :smiley:

This isn’t quite as good as Hal Briston’s sheep … aah … indiscretion, but it has some potential as an SDMB in-joke.

No, it is just in ROT13. The real post is:

P c.wevop;.r lq. Rxecng g.skencr nb k.pov ks hnc lq. tby.cpecj nor n wecc.wlpeo le lq. antvqnkas bltypr nor apzplpov gatrv. eh n "<>CL g.skkencr nor lq. zben poltplpx. eh leea r.bpvo weow.ylb[[.x.o n wnx.zno hpvtc.r etl lqnl no nd. yceknkaas ,sbgb k.ll.c ,pln n enira. qnl knbpwnaas znlwq.b qe, q. yanob le tb. pl (narj P zpvqv narj lq. nayqnotz.cpw g.skencr btt.as qnb n wezz.obtcnl. cnag po qtzno wtaltcna qpblecs nb lq. hpcbl qnor lnea)j ful nhl.c n yrns ec l,e eh ycnwlpw.j ht.a.r ks boekkpbq ycpr. le oe vznar r.vc…j P nyy.wpnl.r plb r.bpvoj ktl ,nb lelnaas hatzzed.r ,q.o P qnr le lsy. eo lq. g.skencr tb.r ks 99i999iii y.cw.ol eh naa r.xpw.b (btwbeq nb zs lsy.,cpl.c nl ,ecg)j nor lqnl ,nb lqnli
Ercyl Jvgu Dhbgr

Gesundheit

I’ve heard of pocket dialing (happens to me all the time), but pocket posting? That’s a new one! Don’t post any pics while you’re down there, Leo!

If we filter it to just English it reduces to “abe abe a abe a raven day pant shy leaf abe” And it’s arguable whether “abe” (short for Abraham other than the bad casing) quite qualifies as standard English.

“a a raven day pant shy leaf” is pretty free-form poetry. Not too unlike Finnegan’s Wake. Another work by James Joyce, the source of Leo’s namesake.

IOW, Leo’s phone thinks and writes about like his hero does. Or was **Leo **sleepwriting during a restless nap after too much Welsh Rarebit and a long walk about Dublin? The world waits and wonders.

I’m thinking that if he’d had an iPhone it would have spell-checked that for him and given us a more coherent message.

Although, actually I was going to say that I was going to agree with him until I shoo’ed the cat off my keyboard.

According to an article I found, clown fish are hermaphrodites. Pixar apparently chose not to share that detail with us.

I think I see a few typos in there! :slight_smile:
It isn’t Rot13. A maps to A and M maps to M. For a big hint:

Ekrpat maps to Dvorak

Well to me this interplay was the implied question of the op. Both obviously in reality occur concurrently.

How much of what Jacob Bronowski famously referred to as “The Ascent of Man” (alluding of course to Darwin’s descent phrase) was due to the spread and competition of ideas, of cultural evolution, and how have our genomes facilitated such, how have they adapted in response to it? Selection at a cultural level does not halt selection at a genomic level, but it does impact the way in which it plays out. Since genes and memes have different degrees of ability and fluidity to spread across and between population groups, and different degrees of linkages and call it epistatic impacts, the interplay can be quite convoluted I would guess.

The related concepts of punishment and cooperation are an easy way to see how the two could both interact and to speculate about the interplay.

But in a more dense population, filling the carrying capacity of their environment and competing with neighbours, a fearsome warrior would be a strong asset. A berserker generally seems to be someone who can fly off the handle with sufficient provocation and then be a wild fighter with less regard to self-defense than for offense. Today, such a person would be removed from the gene pool for months or years following one too many bar fights. back then, if he had a battle axe, nobody would mess with your tribe.

Now if only I could remember what I typed.

If you have anything left of your tribe when the berserker is done with it. Sorry, but your hypothesis makes no sense.

tr \

',.pyfgcrl/=aoeuidhtns-;qjkxbmwvz{}”"“<>PYFGCRL?+AOEUIDHTNS_:QJKXBMWVZ”
“-=qwertyuiopasdfghjkl;'zxcvbnm,./_+QWERTYUIOP{}ASDFGHJKL:”"“ZXCVBNM<>?”

C p.jribc;.e yd. Ekrpat t.fxrape ao x.cbi xf uap yd. gol.pcrpw abe a jrpp.jycrb yr yd. nagidaxnf oyglce abe ncmcycbi tngei. ru a "<>PY t.fxxrape abe yd. mora cbygcyck. ru yrrn e.ocib jrbj.lyo[[.k.b a jak.mab ucigp.e rgy yday ab aq. lprxaxnnf ,foto x.yy.p ,cya a raven. day xaocjannf mayjd.o dr, d. lnabo yr go. cy (anew C mcidi anew yd. anldabgm.pcj t.fxrape ogg.nf dao a jrmm.bogpay. pant cb dgmab jgnygpan dcoyrpf ao yd. ucpoy dabe yarn)w shy auy.p a leaf rp y,r ru lpajycj.w ug.n.e xf obrxxcod lpce. yr br imane e.ip..w C all.jcay.e cyo e.ocibw xgy ,ao yryannf ungmmrq.e ,d.b C dae yr yfl. rb yd. t.fxrape go.e xf 99v999vvv l.pj.by ru ann e.kcj.o (ogjord ao mf yfl.,pcy.p ay ,rpt)w abe yday ,ao ydayv
^D

I recognized the Dvorak keyboard as being by far the usperior, and a correction to the laughably stupid and limiting kludge of a QWERT keybboard and the msoa intuitive of tool design concepts–even a caveman figured out that an axe probablly wysks better wita a oa.dle hat basically matches how he plans to use it (ald, I mighg ald, the alphanumeric keyboard suuely has a commensurate ralk in human cultural history as the first hand taol), ;jt after a pday or two of practice, fueled by snobbish pride to no gmald degree, I appeciated its design, but was totally flummoxed when I had to type on the keyboard used by 99.999… percent of all devices (sucsoh as my typewriter at work), and that was that.

(Left as exercise: Which of typos are in original; which are due to my hand-created Dvorak mapper?)

It’s a hijack, but I understand the idea that Dvorak is actually better to be mostly UL and fanboy BS unsupported by the actual testing that’s been done.

Leo posted his encoded screed in response to my comment about A) crappy VHS winning vs. better Betamax and (parenthetically) B) that Beta’s superiority was UL, but persistent UL.

It seems he’s even more meta than I usually give him credit for. Which is quite a lot actually.