The IRS needs the information in order to properly collect taxes. Something that is done to each and every taxpayer. That’s why there are laws that say that there is information that needs to be sent in to them.
If ICE wants the info, why can’t they just ask the IRS? Because the IRS is not allowed to release that info, even to other agencies. If the IRS can’t give that info to ICE, why should I?
In degree maybe, but I don’t know if it is different in kind. You are handing it over to a person who is not a part of the business, not a part of their payroll or tax collection.
Employers are required to keep I-9’s on file for a number of years after an employee quits. I could not, by law, hand over my only copies, but I could give them copies, and I could promise not to give them to anyone else without a warrant.
It’s not about catching undocumented workers, it’s about protecting privacy. Just because that information can be used for that purpose doe snot mean that that is the only thing it can be used for.
If someone has a reason to believe that I am employing undocumented workers, they can get a warrant to check my records. Otherwise, that information should not be shared with anyone that doesn’t have a reason for it.
ETA: I see that there has been some added to this thread since I started this post, but I really need to get out of here, I’ll pick it up tomorrow.
I don’t think that in either case it can actually be accomplished, but the attempt would definitely cause a major kerfuffle. The word “treason” gets overused in my opinion, but when a state directly defies the duly passed and definitely constitutional laws of Congress that’s pretty much rebellion right there.
Actually, employer files are not just for tax collection, but also for the purpose of verifying employee eligibility to work. That’s what the I-9 form is for, and ICE has access to those forms whenever it requests it. No warrant is required. The whole purpose of the I-9 is for immigration enforcement, just as the W4 is for tax enforcement.
EVery employee must prove their eligibility to work. Just like taxes.
Here’s the thing: there are many employers who WANT to comply with state and federal regulations. The state of California has basically told California employers that when it comes to immigration law, they are expected to do as little as they can get away with. California is not merely looking away, or winking and nodding, but actively pressuring California employers to do as little as possible to comply with immigration law. California has actually made E-verify illegal.
So I say again, if California doesn’t want immigration laws enforced, why not give them what they want? Pull the border patrol from California and use them where they are wanted, in Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas. Have ICE concentate their resources elsewhere. California’s a big state. Remove California from the equation and our immigration authorities can practically wipe out illegal immigration in the other 49 states.
It has nothing to do with my sensibilities it has to do with my liabilities as an employer. I don’t assume anything about you, it’s lame you assumed anything about me.
The thing that is not addressed is my liabilities.
Say I give this shit out, and ICE shakes a guy down and fucks with him. He is clean. Can he sue me because ICE had no warrant?
Misuse e-verify by using it to determine if your employees are eligible to work in this country? I’d call that Orwellian, except it’s just too stupid to be Orwellian. And I know the term “misuse” isn’t your own, that’s California politicians who obviously haven’t competed in a competitive election in decades coming up with that bit of genius.
You’re getting it wrong again–didn’t you read your cite? The law explicitly allows employers to use E-Verify to determine if employees are eligible to work in the country:
“Nothing in this section shall prohibit an employer from utilizing the federal E-Verify system, in accordance with federal law, to check the employment authorization status of a person who has been offered employment.”
Maybe, every time you think something is “Orwellian”, you should check and make sure you have your facts straight.
They can only use it required to do so by federal law. Employers in the other 49 states who use it simply because they want to make sure they only hire legal employees are not “misusing” e-verify.
They can use it to “check the employment authorization status of a person who has been offered employment,” which is the purpose of the system. If it offends you that the law requires employers to use it in the way intended, then I suppose the law offends you.
They cannot use it to check the status of a person offered employment unless required to do so by the federal government. Such as if they are a federal contractor. Federal e-verify laws do not require all employers to verify their workforces. Although that will change soon if we get our way.
Supporters of this California law, I have a question. Let’s say HR in some company routinely hires people not eligible to work in this country. Another employee - let’s say the shop manager - figures this out. Should he be allowed to call the authorities?