There are many parts of the sancutary city policy that I get: tuition for undocumented immigrants, cooperation with law enforcement to reduce domestic violence and general crime in heavily immigrant neighborhoods. Basically, it’s humanitarian and being kind to your fellow man. And I’m always in favor of cities and states setting their own policies differently from the federal government. If the federal government wants to make marijuana illegal or deport illegal immigrants, they are welcome to do that with their own resources. States are under no obligation to help them in any way.
But this one thing bothers me: why the resistance to turning over criminals to immigration authorities? I thought we had all agreed, nearly 100%, that criminals should be deported. Why are sanctuary cities putting these folks back in circulation? It doesn’t sound humanitarian to me(the victims aren’t benefitting from it, that’s for sure), nor does it sound very inteligent. And I can’t imagine that anyone outside the immigrant communities themselves would be against getting rid of these people. So what gives? Justify not deporting criminal immigrants if you have any reasonable arguments.
No, but certainly conviction should equal deportation, and I don’t know about you, but driving without a license sounds pretty serious to me. People get killed because of that.
I had thought the standard was “felon” = “goodbye”. And we weren’t sending them home, we were making them serve their sentences and THEN sending them home.
I think bad drivers cause accidents. Lack of documentation causes people to be killed? How so?
There must be some rules on this, but I’m more familiar with the “serve your sentence then GTFO” from various news stories. Not so much “you’ve been convicted of a felony, pack your bags because we’re giving you an airplane ticket home!”
BTW, I brought this up because of the action of the Miami-Dade mayor to comply with federal law on handing over criminal immigrants. There was an unusual amount of outrage among my Facebook friends(many of whom are immigrants), and I was just wondering why. Why would they want these people back in their neighborhoods? Even driving violations, serious ones should result in deportation. I actually lost three people I know just this month in two driving accidents caused by felonious behavior(one driver was high on coke, the other was driving without a license). Not close friends, but people I knew in passing and read about in the local paper. I also don’t understand the lenience with which federal authorities treat things like drunk driving by immigrants.
One of my immigrant friends used to be a stickler for being law abiding, saying that any little violation could get her deported. Good attitude to have. It’s probably why crime rates are lower among immigrants. But for those who do cross the line, they really should be made to go away.
Reentry after being removed is a felony. So sure, if they want to come back, spend another few months in jail before being deported again, they can go right ahead. Are we enforcing that law? I know they aren’t in California, that’s why that girl got killed. California really should be made to pay compensation for that.
-Let’s not deport undocumented immigrants unless they commit crimes.
-Driving without a license? That’s a crime. Deport 'em!
-Let’s not let undocumented immigrants get driver’s licenses.
You may argue that nobody forces them to drive; but it’s very difficult in many places in the US to live without having at least someone in your immediate family who can drive.
Driving without a license doesn’t cause death. Being a shitty driver does. Many people who drive without a license have had their license revoked due to their previous shitty driving. But that’s not the case for undocumented immigrants who are legally unable to obtain a license.
The Mayor of Portland, Oregon has promised that criminals will be prosecuted as criminals … no matter their legal status … this helps the police solve these crimes and put the perps behind bars … in that any witness can come forward and not worry about being deported …
Not to mention the economic benefits to the city by having the illegal immigrants active in the marketplace … that’s more than the Federal dollars the city would expect to lose … send more Federal dollars and maybe they’ll reconsider …
Then sanctuary cities should make distinctions. We won’t hand over immigrants who drive without a license if they weren’t involved in a traffic accident that was their fault. But we will hand over immigrants who hurt or kill people through reckless action.
First: not all immigration violations are felonies.
Second: just because someone is convicted of a crime does not remove their right to due process
Part of what Trump is suggesting that we do is to deny these individuals the right to due process.
But that part of your argument doesn’t apply to this part “turning over criminals to immigration authorities”
Border guards can check immigration status on the “reasonable suspicion” standard.
What the Federal Government is asking is for cities to check immigration status without Probable Cause.
The term changes greatly from those who refuse to arrest and detain individuals without a warrant to investigate their immigration status.
There are a large number of reasons but a few from the City I live in (Seattle)
[ul]
[li]We are not paid to enforce these federal laws and have limited police resources to even work on higher priority crimes.[/li][li]The electorate believes that having drivers licenses and insurance is more critical to citizen safety than deporting individuals due to federal violations.[/li][li]We want crime victims no matter what their immigration status to be able to use the justice system if they are the victim of crime.[/li][li]We don’t want to harass legal immigrants with profiled “show your papers” actions by police.[/li][li]The xenophobic policies of the nation have removed legal options for migrant workers and we have industries that depend on labor that is almost impossible to fill with native born individuals.[/li][li]It is a protest against xenophobic racist immigration policies.[/li][/ul]
While the rhetoric is strong from the xenophobic portions of our government the real risk is actually almost nonexistent. And had Bush or Reagan kept their campaign promises to implement a guest worker program before their party was overrun by xenophobic elements it would be almost a non-issue.
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](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/criminalization-immigration-united-states)
For the most part “The Wall” is only needed because of the “white” race myth and bigotry against our neighbors to the South. A simple guest worker program would almost immediately correct the problem but as the far right has invested so much into spreading Fear Uncertainty and Doubt it would be almost impossible for them to switch course and implement the solution that was proposed by Reagan.
Undocumented workers often are more exploitable than a lawful U.S. worker, particularly when an employer threatens deportation if workers complain about wages or working conditions. We want to allow them access to the justice system and to charge exploitive employers. Which is both the source of the attraction (jobs) as well as the larger crime in a human rights context.
When I worked as a auto claims adjuster I’d get something along that line all the time.
“Ok Sir, we’re going to be putting you at fault for hitting the back of their vehicle.”
“But they didn’t even have a license! I bet they were illegal.”
“Yeah, but you still rear-ended him, so we’ll be sending them a check.”
Well … there’s the “illegal” part of “illegal immigrant” … it’s illegal for them to be here in the USA … they are subject to deportation at any time and for no other reason … thus these folks tend to be a little shy around Law Enforcement …
This is a Federal law, and it’s up the Federal government to enforce these laws … if La Migra comes in and raids a factory … Portland Police won’t step in and stop them … maybe provide traffic control and what-not but it’s a Federal operation … Portland Police are there to enforce State and municipal laws and that keeps them pretty damn busy …
People who grow up in Mexico have good reason to be afraid of the police … we should condone the Portland Police Department for trying to show these good folks a better way … and they say it’s a material advantage … sound or not it seems to be working …
… and Them the People are real big on immigration reform … stop the deportations right now … fix the law first … bluest of the blue, buck-o …
What about people with criminal convictions who are also bona fide afraid of persecution or death in their hellish home countries? Or have U.S. citizen spouses and children with serious medical issues who depend on them? Or committed the crime in question decades ago, have served their time and kept their noses clean, and haven’t lived in their country of birth since they were infants? Or people with criminal convictions who have untreated PTSD from serving in the U.S. military in Iraq?
Real human stories aren’t always so straightforward.
[li]The xenophobic policies of the nation have removed legal options for migrant workers and we have industries that depend on labor that is almost impossible to fill with native born individuals.[/li][/QUOTE]
What do most other countries do about this who don’t have ready cheap manual labor on hand? I read an article where a California grower in anticipation of Trump’s changes bought a whole lot of equipment to do what he needed to do rather than count on the manual labor he had been using up to that point.
Equipment normally requires a large capital cost, but should be more efficient over the long term than even the cheapest manual labour.
How do businesses get away with hiring people who don’t have a legal right to work in a country? There is always a host of paperwork involved with hiring people, not the least of which is making sure tax on income is paid and counted against the correct person.
Being in jail doesn’t necessarily mean you actually committed a crime, either. Depending on local laws, unpaid parking tickets can land you in jail, for example; while being unable or unwilling to pay the ticket isn’t good, it isn’t exactly a clear and present danger to the public.