Seasonal worker permits, E.G. 60% of the seasonal labor force in Italy is seasonal workers.
Every time they have crazy enforcement threats or new laws crops rot.
Hiring Americans to pick apples is a fantasy.
They won’t do it. During the last recession crops rotted because of a lack of workers too.
But it is not hard to find social security numbers etc…It is a common case that the “illegals” are paying taxes have W2s etc…
That’s not circular reasoning. It’s a natural consequence of being in a country illegally. No one here illegally has a right to drive. Yes, it’s very difficult to live here without driving. SO THEN DON’T LIVE HERE, UNLESS YOU ARE LEGALLY ALLOWED TO!!!
This is another good example to add to the: Why Democrats lose column. People here illegally should not be here. It’s too fucking bad if they can’t drive, which is why they should be in the country where they can drive.
Cite that driving is a “right” or that it requires citizenship etc…
Pro tip: no one has a “right to drive”
To save John Mace time
Washington state requirements
FWIW, outside of exceptions like voting “rights” are not something that is gifted to citizens in our country, the government is limited from infringing on rights and those extend to non-citizens.
Also…the constitution is important
“any person” == well any person.
That is the whole point of the equal protection clause of the 14th amendment.
Although I do realize that Glenn Beck etc…typically have rhetoric that ignores this.
However, driving is not a right, nor is working. Well, working probably should be, but it isn’t. So you can’t excuse crimes involving driving and employment just because the immigrant “needs” to do it. He or she knew they’d have to break more than just one law to live here. the very act of living here illegally necessitates a lot of lawbreaking.
Thus “sanctuary cities/state” were we change the laws that we have control over…thus giving them the ability to get a drivers licenses and insurance, access to courts etc…
All without paying for the Federal governments inability to enact legislation.
But to be clear, I bet you broke several laws today, does that mean that you give up your right to probable cause?
Or are you just arguing that the cities themselves are responsible when someone commits a crime against them (gives an invalid SSN)?
When a state law enforcement officer witnesses a federal crime being committed and makes an arrest that officer is not acting on delegated federal power. But is rather action on the inherent power of his state to assist another sovereign.
Are you really claiming that we should do away with states rights and force local governments to enforce federal law that does not line up with local priorities and give up all of our sovereignty?
As I cited before immigrant groups, legal and illegal are statistically more “law abiding” than native citizens when it comes to state laws.
Why should we drop violent and property crime case work and spend money to fix the problem the Feds created and which only the Feds can fix.
So the South should have been able to ignore civil rights laws?
Cite that I claimed anyone had a right to drive?
Actually, please don’t try. I didn’t, and you missed the entire point.
Now, further to what I was saying… I’m not at all unsympathetic with the plight of illegal aliens here. I work with several every day. If I had been in their shoes, I might well have done just what they did. But, if caught doing something illegal in a country I was not legally allowed to live in, I hope I would understand that it would be absurd to cry foul, and rather realize that I took a risk and got caught. I also understand the reasons behind the idea of allowing illegal aliens to get driving licenses. It might even be good policy. But if you don’t enforce border laws, you might as well not even have any.
So, let’s be clear: Anyone here illegally risks being deported. That comes with the territory. If you break the law, no matter how well intentioned you are, and you bring yourself to the attention of the authorities, Don’t fucking be surprise if you get deported.
Well then the entire post is an type invalid syllogism.
Both premises are negative, so there is no valid link link between the major and minor terms.
My cites show that non-residents can get DLs and insurance in some states, and citizens don’t have a right to drive.
So as there is no “right to drive” and it is not impossible for an undocumented worker to get a DL are you saying that this is universal. (but also not true in many parts of the country)
Seeing as your first term was meaningless, and the second is universal (kind of), what are you basing the last conclusion on then?
Or is your argument that I shouldn’t debate in a forum called Great Debates? Because you know that I will not comply with a demand to not debate.
Or am I suppose to just concede and accept invalid arguments?
I agree with sanctuary cities’ right to not enforce federal law. It’s not their responsibility. They don’t have to cooperate either. I just think that releasing criminals back into the population rather than handing them over to ICE after they’ve served their sentence is unwise. And frankly, seems to be prioritizing the interests of immigrants over the interests of citizens.
The ACLU just published a document covering why:
Warning PDF https://www.aclu.org/sites/default/files/field_document/aclu-trump-memos.pdf
Note that the main cause for slow deportation is federal court backlogs
http://trac.syr.edu/immigration/reports/405/
The system just lacks the budget to process cases fast and they have only had minor budget increases for a very long time.
Of course all of the money going to build a wall that everyone will just fly over won’t help this out at all.
We’re not talking about denying due process. These are people who have already been convicted of crimes and are supposed to be deported according to our laws. and deportation, while due process, is not a criminal action, it’s civil, so they can be ruled deported in absentia. If they don’t show for the hearing, a deportation order is issued and if they are found, they are immediately deported.
In the case of criminals, the deportation courts can act while they are still in prison, and ICE can be there to pick them up on their release day.
So Deport Them All Because They are All Criminals.
Houston isn’t a “Sanctuary City”–although it’s a poorly defined term. However, our Sheriff & Mayor were just on TV explaining that HPD will not quiz everyone on their immigration status. We want witnesses & victims able to talk to the cops without fear. Once someone’s in deep legal trouble, questions might be asked.
I did see a sheriff from one of the Outlying Counties, who’d just apprehended a Colombian gang of burglers. (He got help from HPD–Barney Fife was not working alone.) They’d been in legal trouble on past sojourns here. However, they probably flew in…
I think most sanctuary cities/states will turn over people where ICE has provided a court order. ICE may ask a local jail to hold someone for a few days after the criminal case is completed* without a court order and then decide not to deport that person/be unable to get a court order. And also not reimburse for the extra jail/prison days.
I thought republicans were for states’ rights and local control. Why is Washington involved in trying to tell Miami-Dade how to police their residents. Sanctuary cities have a practical purpose of allowing basically otherwise law-abiding people of staying in the community with their families. Police need information from people in some of these communities. Turning local cops into ICE is going to shut off that flow of information.
Only when it suits them. Same for the Dems in the other direction.
Look at the whole medical/recreational marijuana issue as a classic example.
And that’s a proper use of local discretion. However, if you’ve got a criminal in your jails, let ICE know when their release date is.
As for deportation for driving or working, depends on what the crime is. If they stole someone’s identity, jail 'em and boot 'em. If they used fake documents, charge them for that felony and boot 'em. If the employer just hired them despite no documents, then that’s on the employer. But getting fake documents or committing identity theft is a willful act, and “needing” to do it is no defense. At least not if you’re a citizen, apparently.