A Sensible Christian – Sort of Long

Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
1

At this festive season of the year Mr. Scrooge, I’d like to make a little statement of faith that is absolutely NOT intended to be witnessing. (I’m no good at witnessing).

I’ve noticed on the boards as of late that whenever someone makes a mention of radical Muslims, someone jumps in with a snipe at Christianity (which may or may not be warranted), then we have the Vanilla is a bitch thread, and a general ire towards the religion in general. I do believe it’s because, like Islam, our attention is only drawn to the radical or fundamental factions of these faiths. It’s more interesting, more shocking, more amazing.

I am a Christian. I grew up in a Christian home, with two wonderful, loving parents and a sister whom I am very close with. We went to church every Sunday morning at 8:00 followed by adult and child Sunday School at 9:15 and McDonalds at 11:00 :smiley: I learned the basics of living much like the basics of grammar or math. The ten commandments, the beatitudes, I honestly learned to ask myself What Would Jesus Do? Before it was a fashionable bracelet phrase.

I enjoyed church. It was a non-denominational Christian church, filled with vibrant, happy, intelligent people from every background. Filled with music and humor and a sort of coziness that belied how crabby I was to get up at 7:00 am on a Sunday. They were open minded (some more than others), inquisitive and studious. Our church was not a place of auto-worship, following the same script over and over, but a place where people took notes during the sermon, where the talk after church was about church, where fifteen minutes of every service was devoted to praises and concerns from the congregation. I remember joyfully announcing my engagement and having 300 people that I’d grown up with clap and smile feel pride for one of their own.

We weren’t screamed at about fire and brimstone and sin and damnation. We were not taught hate. We were taught one thing, the one thing that Jesus wanted of us: LOVE ONE ANOTHER. LOVE ONE ANOTHER…LOVE ONE ANOTHER. We were not taught to blow up abortion clinics, or carry signs that said “god hates fags”. We were not taught that we were better than everyone else or “chosen” or whathaveyou.

I gain peace from my faith. It gets me through very hard times. It gets me through scary times. “I love the lord my God, what can man do to me?” is what the Bible taught me. I have a strong sense of values that I try to live out instead of preach to others. I try to live by example instead of by exposition to everyone I meet. My husband is also a man of faith, (although it’s that crazy Catholic variety) :D. Our friends claim that we are one of the best marriages they’ve ever observed. I don’t think it’s a coincidence.

And I know that I’m not a fully developed, mature Christian. I used to be stronger, and more of a insistent follower, and then as I became separated from my family and the strength of the church, I faltered: my language, my drinking, my smoking, my lust. I know I’m plagued by these things, and I occasionally feel guilt, but I know that Jesus Loves Me (this I know) regardless. I am a human being with weaknesses.

Anyway, every Christmas and New Years, I try to make an honest effort to be a better Christian. Not to look better to others or to try and impress other Christians, but because I feel better when I’m expressing love, compassion and understanding. I feel better when I’m following the rules I learned as a child.

I hope to make great strides this Christmas, but I don’t wish to alter my personality, to become a drone, or a Stepford Christian. I’m still filled with drama and swearing and lust and extremes…but hopefully, with the Lord’s help, I can temper them just a bit.

jar

2

The best witnessing is when no one can tell you are doing it :smiley:

I had a similar background in that my faith has always been with me. There was never any lightning bolt epiphany like most people can point to. I sometimes envy that a little but I have no complaints.

I’ve had a more diverse background than most Christians too. I was raised Roman Catholic until about the age of seven when mom decided she didn’t want her kids raised R.C. Over the growing up years we went to Assembly of God, Missouri Lutheran and Southern Baptist churches along with a few others I don’t recall. The fundies left a bad taste in my mouth but about a year and a half ago I found an ELCA congregation that was just waiting for me. We welcome everyone to worship and take communion with us regardless of sexual orientation, marital status or just about anything else. We don’t try to change or “fix” anyone like fundies would. It’s a real WWJD place to worship.

3

It’s kind of hard to take you seriously, when any sensible Child of the Lord™ knows that you’ve made a pact with Satan, just so that your hometown football team can win a few lousy games for once. :smiley:

Do you and jarhubby do Advent?

I’m making an effort to do more advent kinds of things this year…rather than just kill time leading up to Dec 25th.

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I think it’s obvious that I’m a good Christian, because I resist the temptation to worship a godless sinner like Brett Favre :smiley:

I love Advent. It definitely makes Christmas more special.

jar

5

Now that’s the type of religion I can deal with. If more people felt like jarby, I do think the world would be a better place.

I was raised strict R.C. Lots of “Thou shall nots”, very few “Thou shalls”. Went to Catholic school (whack!), where the nuns (whack!) practiced a very strict (whack!) form of tough love (whack!). Sunday Services were mind-numblingly boring and repetitive: stand, kneel, sit, stand, shake, stand, kneel. Same prayers every week. For a young boy going through puberty, some of my best sexual fantasies were invented during the catatonia of church. I was an altar boy which let me get to know priests off-line. Instead of seeing them as devout men of God, I saw that they were no better then local politicians (in most cases).

So yeah, I have a real sour taste in my mouth for almost all things religious. I really do admire those who have a strong conviction, but I’ve been beaten with the God-stick so many times, that will never be me.

I think that if my church experience had been the type jarbaby describes, I’d be a lot more into it. Never mind the heaven and hell thing, but just the whole community aspect is something that would’ve helped get through some tough times.

Thanks jarbaby, we needed that.

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Thanks, jarbaby. You expressed a lot of what I’ve been feeling. (and you also are doing a lot of what I’m trying to do. Were we separated at birth or something?)

Have a blessed Christmas season, kiddo. And may you continue to grow.

7

Thanks pals.

It felt good to get it out. I had my parents in for the holidays and it made me realize how blessed I was to have such a wonderful, happy, stable family.

I shouldn’t squander my blessings

jar

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Well said, Jar. Glad to see there’s more of us out there.

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Sure, but remember, just 'coz we’re Christians, doesn’t mean we can’t have fun. My campus pastor told us of this quote, which she attributed to Martin Luther himself:

I figger if that philosophy was good enough for the founder of my denomination (ELCA, too), it’s good enough for me.

Play hard. Pray harder.

Joyous Advent, jar Thanks for showing us how we can wear our hearts on our sleeves and not be annoying.

Padeye, sounds like you’re in a similar congregation to mine. Please indulge me while I share a story about why I’ll belong to this congregation forever:

The pastor was addressing an Adult Sunday school class on witnessing. I asked him the question I had been getting asked as long as I’d been a Christian, “So, if the only way to get into Heaven is to believe in Jesus, does that mean that if Jeffrey Dahmer became a Christian before he died, he’s in Heaven, but Gandhi’s in hell?”

My pastor looked at me and said, “I don’t know.”

“No-one in the world knows the answer to that question, so don’t believe anyone who tries to give you a definite answer. Because they haven’t been given that knowledge.”

I trust a person of the cloth who’s humble enough to admit he doesn’t know all the answers over some hell-fire slinger who claims he does.

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Jar, sweetie, if I paid for all expenses, would you considering moving to my neck of the woods? I’d really really really really really LOVE to have you as a neighbor. And then you can slap some sense into my stepdaughter (who, despite insisting that it’ll be at least six months before she makes plans to get married, is in process of moving her things to Florida) and stepson, both of whom take the term Fundie to an entirely new level. My quarrel with God’s followers will never, ever be with you, or with others who possess such an open, accepting, HEALTHY p.o.v. on their beliefs. May you grow in your faith and always find fullfillment in its path. And thank you for such a moving post.

Incidentally, an amusing little tale about the WWJD movement. Growing up, pre-popularity of WWJD, I knew a good number of people who truly tried to live this way. It wasn’t an easy path for them, but I really admired them for sticking to it, and they were some of the kindest, most generous and caring people I’ve ever had the pleasure of meeting. You and your family strike me as some of these people. However, my stepkids got really caught up in it when they started the merchandising, and for months met every decision with The Phrase. I was fine with it at first, but then they started insinuating themselves into conversations I’d be having with other people, insisting that any problem we were facing would be solved if we just asked ourselves WWJD. It bordered on the ridiculous. Not sure if you should quit your job? WWJD? Having problems with your marriage? WWJD? Got money problems? WWJD? Don’t know what to have for dinner? WWJD? Having menstrual cramps? WWJD? One day I was in the middle of a conversation with a friend over a very sensitive issue she was having, when the kids (who had apparently been eavesdropping) leapt into the room and said The Dread Phrase. Never mind that my friend wasn’t Christian, or that they had NO right to be listening to the conversation. I turned, and with FAR more calmness than I felt at the time, asked them “Would that be the pissed-off Jesus who blew up fig bushes and said he came not to bring peace but the sword, or the happy-go-lucky love-thy-neighbor Jesus? 'Cause it seems to me that he had a bit of an identity crisis, and I would imagine it’s a pretty important distinction to make.” They very slowly and quietly backed out of the room, and never tried that one again. May have had something to do with the look of impending doom on my face. :wink:

-BK

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jarbabyj I thank you… Your post is what I wish more Christians are like… maybe I might still be Christian myself if I knew more like that or maybe not… I don’t know. Be happy in your faith.

Namaste

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Bless you jarbaby.

I always feel at odds with my Christianity-- because I fly in the face so many things Christian. I HATE Christian Culture. They always seem to forget what is really important and/or distort what they have been taught for the purpose of feeling superior. That bugs me.

Plus, I have stopped going to church because I can not find a church like you describe. Everything is so entrenched in this culture that I hate that its inescapable.

Am I a bad Christian? I don’t think so. I just think that when people ask themselves What Would Jesus Do-- they don’t understand what it means. And when most people become Christian, its more because of the subculture than about God. If it were truely about what God meant for us, things would be more about loving all people. Not so much on the radical ideas that people seem to justify somehow.

I always ramble like this and wonder if it makes sense. I hope it does, because it has all led to major faith issues for me. How can God make me a Christian-- only to be so different from all other “Christians”? Makes it hard to continue my belief. My only answer is that somehow either I’m way right, and my Christian purpose is to change the Christian attitude. Or, I’m way wrong, and in which case, I’m just a fool.

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Hi JarB, I knew we had something in common other than an interest in things teutonic.

If God has given me peace (which He has), and I was lost before I had it, what can I do to help or show others what they are missing? I wouldn’t think my judgement and their deciding out of guilt would work (in general). A happy-clappy nebulous ‘God is love, so be happy’ isn’t directed at where their needs are, so is easily dissipated.

But I can show them God’s love, and share what He has done for me, and does day by day. By ‘sharing’, I mean not just words, but commitment, support, tangible help, my forgiveness, my time, my prayers … even my life (still working on that one).

And the wonder of Christmas is what I strive to catch each year - not the commercialism, the faux-spiritual. I take my kids outside on the warm summer nights, listen to the cicadas and tell them of what the shepherds must have experienced, when heaven opened and angels filled the sky.
He became a man, and dwelt amoung us - what a commitment!

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What strikes me as odd is how so many people can flame “Christianity” when their knowledge of it is so minimal. The secular knowledge of Christian culture is limited to only the most vocal of Christians. In order to know what Jesus would do, we have to know what Jesus did do. Jesus didn’t go out and “seek the lost” to hand out Chick tracts. People were drawn to Jesus becuse of who he is. I don’t mean that people were drawn to the Son of God, they were drawn to a messenger of love and peace and forgiveness. Any man who can master those skills would still have much greater impact on the world than a TV evengelist with bad hair, because those traits that Jesus has do not leave people bitter and judged, they leave people loved and forgiven. The attitudes of satanism have become frighteningly similar to the actions of many “Christian” bible thumpers (I’ve probably insulted some satanists by saying that, lol).

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I tried to do WWJD for about a week. I dropped it quickly because that just happened to be the week when a couple of so-called friends tried to set me up on several dates.

Have a couple of sleazy, but only, friends trying to get you to kiss boys you’ve never met before?

WWJD?

I was stumped, so I scrapped it. I do wish I’d thought of those parts where Jesus blew up fig trees and threw people out of the temple, like bobkitty said.

jar, you live in Chicago. Go to my old high school and give them a righteous whooping.

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Dale the Bold, I actually agree with you. Even when I don’t agree with you, however, I think you state your beliefs in an unassuming yet powerful way.

jarbabyj, thank you for expressing basically what I think about our religion.

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Not till after the next Dopefest, I hope. :wink:

Seriously, jarbabyj, may your prayers be answered. Peace and Merry Christmas.

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I agree with much of what you’ve said. The hardest part is not that we fail, but that others watching constantly remind us of that failure. No, we are not perfect by a long long shot, and never will be. We have enough bad feelings knowing what we are striving for without that constant knife in the back that others so willing turn when we fall short. It’s real hard sometimes to ‘love your neighbor as you love yourself.’ But the important thing is that we continue to strive, no matter what. One of my very favorite verses is the one about not trying to get the splinter out of your brother’s eye when you have a beam in your own. So true. Something that we should aim for all year long and not just at Christmas.
Have a wonderful Christmas season.