I Was watching GMA this morning and they were talking about some ship that Pres Kennedy was on that sank during WW2. I won’t go into what they said about the sinking, but they said something I have never heard before. The guy on there said that any ship that sinks and incurrs fatalities, is considered a natural (or national couldnt hear clearly) graveyard and can’t be moved because of that. He said that applies to ships of any navy.
How long has this been SOP?
Does it have to be a Naval ship or do passenger boats count as well?
Do all countries participate in this?
Is it only during wartime or does it apply during peace time as well?
If the YSS Cole had sunk, would they have left the bodies in the ship at the bottom of the ocean?
How long does a ship have to be under before it is considered a graveyard?
Does this also apply to ships that are in the Army or other branches?
Any other interesting stuff like this I should know?
Many of the ships sunk by the Japanese in the Pearl Harbor attack were salvaged and repaired, and the dead reburied. The Navy tried to do this to the Arizona, failing that, it is now considered a graveyard.
The Hunley, a Confederate submarine, was recently raised with dead sailors aboard.
I think a declaration needs to be made that the wreck is a gravesite and is not to be disturbed. I believe declarations to this effect have been made in the past. The Titanic and the Edmond Fitzgerald come to mind.
the sovereign state continues to hold title over sunken ships, aircraft, (and one would assume, tanks in the Pacific or off Normandy), by international convention (unless said craft was captured or surrendered before sinking. From the above-mentioned site:
and
So, while it seems that there isn’t yet a specific International Agreement on war graves at sea, (although UNESCO is proposing such an agreement), there is opinion that the 1982 UN Convention on the Law of the Sea does provide some coverage.
So, to answer the OP:
At least since 1982, as far as UN legislation goes, but I suspect that informal or semi-formal arrangements go back much farther, especially between the US and western European nations (and Canada).
According to the above, it is military vessels; but I suspect that a civilian vessel lost due to act of war could also be considered–think of the Wilhelm Gustloff, a German ship loaded with refugees (and some military), sunk with the loss of over 9,000 lives in January of 1945.
Probably not all countries, but the site quoted above says that there is a “a moderately well-developed body of customary international law governing the treatment of sunken warships and military aircraft,” which implies that there is some international co-operation or mutual respect (but, for example, would North Korea play along? I doubt it.)
The above-referenced page says “Warships, naval auxiliaries, and other vessels owned or operated by a State and used at the time they sank only on government non-commercial service, are State vessels,” which would seem to include vessels lost in time of peace.
I suspect that had the Cole sunk, the US would recover all remains possible; likely the ship would have been raised (so close in to shore, it couldn’t have been that deep–and in addition to remains of casualties, the US wouldn’t want certain equipment to be recovered by potentially hostile parties or governments).
No mention of how long before a ship is a war grave, but I would guess pretty much immediately after the sovereign flag state has completed salvage and recovery work (if any).
This reminds me of the raising of the Kursk, the russian submarine that sank in 1991(?), presumably due to a torpedo malfunction. The russians raised what part of it they could, including what human remains they could get, and towed it back home. I think the bow of the sub is still on the bottom of the Barents Sea.
RR
Was it that Ballard guy on GMA? He is really big on finding lost ships. He found Titanic and JFK’s PT 109 and the Yorktown (lost during Midway) but he did not for salvage rights for Titanic. Then another company did and started pulling up artifacts from Titanic and it really upset Ballard.
So now when he can he files for the rights and never uses them. He goes and floats around the wreaks and takes photos and sells books but he personally wants them to remain undisturbed.
Now you went and got me all curious again. I did find this site , which said, A note left by a sailor said the nuclear submarine Kursk was sunk by the explosion of a practice torpedo… The respected daily Izvestia on Monday quoted unidentified naval officers as saying the… note was written by Lt. Rashid Aryapov, who said the explosion, which sent the submarine crashing onto the seabed, was caused by the misfiring of a practice torpedo.
That’s hardly definitive, but according to this CBC site, the issue seems to be more or less settled.
I remembered hearing that they had settled on a torpedo malfunction, but I hadn’t checked for cites before.
RR
I think that almost everyone considers a sunken vessel with bodies still on board a graveyard. Wasn’t it the Glomar Explorer that raised parts of a old Soviet sub during either the Ford or Careter administration? The crew of the Glomar Explorer gave the Russian remains a full military style burial at sea, carefully following the protocols the Russian navy used. After the news came out, the Russians got a video tape of the ceremonies. Even the goddless commies admitted that they appreciated the respect shown to the Russian submariners.
Yes, but in his book he mentions that he made no attempt to go inside it, because it remains the property of the German government. He would only send submersibles inside if the German government consented. He also mentions that it is a war grave and therefore should be respected as such. He seems to consider these two separate but related issues. (See Ballard, The Discovery of the Bismarck, at p.221.)