Enlighten me, please, as to the difference, in terms of evidence, between Santa Clause and the Yahweh character from the bible. Or for that matter any other mythological character.
Who the hell are you to tell someone to stop saying things that you are uncomfortable hearing? You know damn well that critical thinking is the one skill that kids are consistently ***not ***taught. The problem isn’t kids who are “too stupid to learn to think critically.” The problem is that too many adults were, themselves, never taught to think critically, and their kids don’t have a chance. And sorry, when a kid isn’t taught how to think, “brainwashing” is the only alternative.
No.
To me, the issue isn’t whether an adult’s beliefs which they are attempting to inculcate into children are true in my opinion or not. The issue is how those beliefs are handled.
I personally do not believe in the literal truth of Christian doctrine. But that would not stop me from admiring parents who attempted to teach their children the truth of Christianity by living up to what they saw as the Christian way of life (and you could substitute “Jewish”, “Buddhist” or whatever in that sentence). Just as I would condemn parents or other adults who attempted to shame or brow-beat children into accepting their beliefs, whatever they may be.
Thus - when talking to a child - adopting a tone of condemnation or sarcasm towards their beliefs as inculcated by their parents is wholly inappropriate (such as, “baby Jesus no more exists than thec flying spagetti monster - Granny/your pet cat isn’t in heaven, like your parents say, there is no heaven”) - just as “if you question the truths of Christianity, you will rot in Hell forever” isn’t appropriate.
The latter is of course worse because it is more frightening; but the former isn’t right, either. The “wrong” lies not in spreading false beliefs (I’m assuming everyone believes their beliefs are not false), but in how you treat the matter of attempting to influence a child.
I have a hard time putting religious belief into the realm of opinion, such as “You like chocolate icecream whereas I like vanilla”
I have an overwealming sense that truth and non-truth is independent of human perception. There either is a God or there isn’t. I don’t agree with the idea of being satisfied with it being a matter of opinion.
I think that you responded okay. I think you tried to be honest and I’m glad that you didn’t try to impress upon her that her beliefs are “wrong.” (Which, as has already been pointed out, can not be qualified as either “true” or “false.”) I think it is a shame that her parents have not allowed any room for her to question the world around her. But I am kind of confused that many people who have responded are so…angry, I guess… that a parent would teach their religious beliefs to their children. What would you have them do? Leave their children at home when they go to church or temple? Not share their beliefs and values with their children? As I said, it is shameful that some hypothetical parents, presumably of a more fundamentalist background, could potentially teach their children to be close-minded or even hateful to other religious beliefs. But there are a lot of parents who teach their children to be close-minded to people of other races and cultures and genders and sexual orientations, not just other religions. All types of prejudice are bad. I think the best thing is that while you can teach your children your own personal beliefs, you can expose them to those of others and help them to make informed decisions when they are older.
Oh I agree. Either there is a God or there isn’t. Either granny is in heaven with Jesus, or she’s rotting in a hole in the ground and heaven is just a comforting mythological construct.
But the issue, to my mind at least, is not to ‘lay down the law’ on the one correct eternal truth, when it comes to teaching children about belief-systems, in a manner which would be appropriate when debating with other adults. It is surely far better to have kids believe that there are different opinions out there, and later, as part of the process of growing up, they can decide what the truth is.
We were trick or treating a few years ago when my son asked " Why are there two churches (Methodist and Bapist) right next to each other on the same street?" ( On Church Street, no less.)
I replied a little too quick, " Church is good business." and then guiltily backtracked, “Religion is like baseball. Everyone roots for a different team, but they are all playing the same sport.”
My friends, who are more normal and whitebread than I, were very impressed with my metaphor. (Which I added, under my breath to them, *and baseball is good business, too. Just not tax free.[/size]
:applauds WhyNot:
Your correct. There is a god or there isn’t. And since it can’t be proven either way presently what your left with is your belief. You either belive there is or isn’t.
And based on the current set of facts it does become your opinion.
Much like scientists hypothesis works. Scientist Bob says because of facts x, y, and z, when I do A I believe B will happen. Scientist Jim says no, becuase of facts x, y, and z, when you do A I believe C will happen. But until the truth is found out by doing the expirement they both have to rest on their own beliefs as to what the truth is.
Do you feel the same way about muslim parents who encourage their children to become martyrs?
Hmmm, did I miss something? He can’t back up his previous statement, and so you clap at his innability to do so? I’m not surprised.
To Malthus: I pretty much agree with what you said. I was addressing WhyNot’s last point however, though it’s not really on topic, sorry about that.
No. I was applauding her for not entertaining your comment which I felt was intended to just start an argument.
It is a fact however, that people believe different things, so even if you believe there either is or isn’t a god, it is correct to tell children that some people believe this and some people believe that.
The important point is: Some of them are wrong and some of them are right.
It needs to be stressed that a belief can be wrong. It seems to me in today’s society that fact is supressed.
It’s almost as if society encourages people to think that believing in something makes it sort of true for the person believing in it.
I can understand that when it applies to placebos (if you believe you will get better your body works harder to get better… somehow) but not to world-views.
quoted for advice quality. I agree.
Thank you.
Me, I always thought (during my adolescence) that people naturally rebelled against their upbringing sometime between the ages of 12 and 20 (for me it was 13). When it became clear that many do not, I was shocked (yeah I lived the sheltered life of a loner). I hope my nephew (13 now) will undergo something like that and reinvent his faith or somesuch at the very least, but I kind of doubt it.
My niece is living with my grandparents because of my sister’s drug problems. Both sets of grandparents are constantly shoving Christianity down her throat. Thankfully she never really asks me anything about religion. It doesn’t especially concern me though.
FAH