A couple years ago one of my sisters asked to borrow $10,000 because she wanted to buy and reopen a cafe in the rural Indiana town she’d just moved to. I told her restaurants were a bad idea and had a high rate of failure. Still thought it would be just great. I finally agreed to loan her $5000, with the understanding that this was not an investment on my part and that I expected to be repaid no matter the success or failure. Instead of interest, my BIL was to help me reroof my house. He’s experienced in all kinds of handyman stuff. First day on the job, on the lowest, flattest part of the roof, he misses stepping off the ladder, falls and breaks his hip. He goes in for surgery and I hire a roofer. And they close the restaurant without ever putting sufficient effort into making the business go.
Now it’s 2 1/2 years after loaning them the money. I’ve had a bit of it paid back, only on extreme duress. They always have some excuse or another why they can’t pay a dime now. I had to get a loan to hire the roofer, so I’m paying that back, with interest, which I wouldn’t have had to do if I had been paid back my loan from them. It’s getting so that I’m angry just talking to her. Every time she talks about have gone out to dinner, I’m thinking about how she could’ve eaten at home and paid that money to me. I’m almost to the point of just forgiving the loan and telling them never, ever ask for money again. But that’s really to try and shame them into paying me. But why should I? I’m working hard to finish paying for this. I can’t decide whether I’ll feel better just letting it go, and if I happen to be reimbursed, that’s gravy, or continue to press it. I hate being in debt. Before, all I had was my mortgage.
Anyway, is it worth a sibling relationship to just forget about it? I actually have other siblings who (in my opinion) need the money worse. If I wasn’t going to have it, I’d rather the brother recovering from cancer surgery used it.
Some people are totally embarrassed by borrowing money from family members and want nothing more than to show their love and loyalty by paying back loans as quickly and painlessly as possible.
Other people are jerkwads and … I don’t know what they think or why they think it’s ok not to pay their relatives back. I honestly do not know, other than they are bad people (BAD PEOPLE!)
I’ve been the loan-ee three times with my grandparents and parents, and I’ve done everything to pay them back promptly and in full. I’ve been the loan-er to my cousin and my other cousin’s wife and got fucked over by them. And yes every dime I see them spend I think “YOU COULD SEND THAT MONEY TO ME!!”
Time to just get over it. I let it drive me nuts for like 3 years this last time. The second and final time i loaned money to family. Never again.
I’d probably quietly write it off. Don’t bother shaming them - I doubt it would work. If they ever come begging again you can bring up the fact they owe you as to why they aren’t getting a dime. But otherwise if their own consciences isn’t doing the job, you probably aren’t going to be able to guilt them into it.
And if talking to them aggravates you, just stop talking to them. In the long run it isn’t worth being incessantly pissed off.
I’ve loaned money ( nothing huge ) to family and friends I’ve never gotten back. But I went into those situations with my eyes wide open to the strong possibility that would be the case. When dealing with flaky or unreliable people who are nonetheless close to you, probably best never to loan anything you wouldn’t mind walking away from without regret.
ETA: By the way, just to be clear I’m not saying forgive the debt. Just don’t mention it anymore and letting it eat at you. Maybe some decade you’ll get lucky and they’ll pay you back some of it.
My dad’s sister borrowed $2000 from him years and years ago. She never paid it back. And, as these things go, she showed her gratitude by avoiding him. She ended up dying a few years later of a widow-maker heart attack. My father was heartbroken, not only by her death, but because the last 2 years of her life, the phone calls and visits ended because she was avoiding him. All over $2000.
In retrospect, he wishes he’d have just given her the $2000.
So my advice is to let it go because you’re not going to see it again. At least if you’ve gifted it to her, you can feel virtuous instead of like a schlep.
Personally, I don’t lend money. I either give it outright, or I give it to them anonymously. I don’t like how loans change relationships. Many times, instead of showing gratitude, people demonize the lender to make themselves feel better about stealing from them.
I say don’t forgive it, and don’t forget it either. Here’s why, and obviously ymmv.
If I lend someone money, I do it in good faith with the expectation of being repaid in full. If the person can’t repay, that’s fine. But if they choose not to repay, then no matter what, that will forever poison my relationship with them, and that’s their decision.
So come clean, go round and say ‘Can we talk about this two grand? It may not be much to you guys but it is to me.’
Of course they’ll say they can’t afford to repay you, so ask what they can afford each and every month. Without any doubt. $5? $10? If that’s what it takes, ok. Don’t waver.
I’ve loaned this sister money before and she’s always paid me back. Not quite this much money, but $2000. It’s always taken her a long time to find the money, but she manages eventually. She and her husband are newly retired, and I think they’re finding they have less to live on than they thought they would. I asked her, when she was talking about her husband retiring, if they’d be able to make ends meet, since she’s 57 and he’s about 60, and she said there’d be no problem. It seems like it’s more problematic than they thought. I just feel that if he even got a part-time job, he could at least pay me something.
I don’t know. She’s my sister, but the fact that she can watch me pay interest for money they’ve spent just galls me.
You should let it go…not only because of how it’s eating away at you, but because your sister’s going to end up hating you if you keep pressing the issue.
David Mamet explained this dynamic perfectly in The Spanish Prisoner:
Family rule, never do money or business deals with relatives for any reason.
For us kids, we got zero mistakes allowed. Dad would give us kids a payment book, miss a payment, he took your car. or …
Or you sat out a semester and got a better job. etc…
We could be in all kinds of trouble and would have major support. IMO, if you write it off, you are condoning theft within the family. You are saying that it is alright to steal from you.
You knew it was all wrong and going to fail when you loaned the money & they were retiring early after the fall? ::: wow, you shot yourself in the foot. ::::::
Steal from a relative made you invisible in my family and the fool that lent you money was hammered for years about it.
So seldom happened in the 60 years I can remember, I think we have had more manslaughter charges than money trouble with relatives.
The whole thing is beyond understanding or acceptance …
I would just do one thing, every time I saw them or any member of the family, I would ask about, “When are they going to pay me back or did anyone know what their situation is as they have been ducking me & won’t even do $5 a month.”
You mixed personal and business but that’s in the past. Is the business more important than the relationship? In this situation it sounds like, at best, you can salvage one of the two. Once you pick one, the answer to your question follows.
I’ve seen a bizarre dynamic where the lender WANTS the loan to not be repaid, because now they are the victim and have the moral high ground against the borrower. This person has a pattern of this, making poor decisions knowing the outcome so they become a sort of martyr everyone has fucked over and they crow about it to anyone who will listen.
This is the part that would (and has) just make me fume. In my experience, the worst thing about loaning money is that most people assume that if you have enough money to loan it, you have enough money to lose it.
Have you ever said anything to the effect that she’s going out to eat while you’re in debt because she’s in debt to you?
Only you can answer that.
I’d have a hard time forgiving it. My family works a little bit like GusNSpot’s, maybe not quite as extreme, but close.
If either one of them were to work a minimum wage job, roughly 30 hours a week for 6 months, they could have you paid off. (I just looked at one of my most recent check stubs and did some math. :D) And they’re going out to eat?! I just think that’s selfish.
I stopped loaning real money decades ago (for some reason, my older sister often needs $20 until payday, which I wouldn’t care about losing but she always pays back.) If it’s more money than I’m comfortable giving away, I say no. It makes no difference because, as said above, you’re the bad guy no matter what. If you have the money and don’t lend it, you’re a jerk. If you lend the money and expect it back, you’re a jerk. So keep the money.
If you can afford to write it off, do so - because getting it back sounds like it may cause you more pain than drawing a line under it. Do it without fanfare.
And never lend this person money again. Just tell them sorry, you can’t do it, end of.
Lending money outside of a formal business context is more often than not, a recipe for later pain.
Sorry to pile on with all of us being wise after the event, but I agree with those who say you should consider this a gift, expensive and galling as it is for you. If I were you I would never mention it again, write it off in my mind so I no longer worried about it, and be genuinely surprised and delighted if I ever saw any of it back. Be thankful that your own finances are so much better organised than theirs.
I really hate giving a lump sum and getting it back in fives or tens. And the experience you are having- listening to her/them talk about what they bought when they owe you- can be infuriating. They CAN pay you back, but have chosen to not do so. The debt is not important enough to them to clear up.
Maybe you could try telling her you are “hard up” right now and need the money “next week” or “next month.” Ask her to get a loan. Present it like you are doing her a favor in getting her debt to you cleared up. Expect her to gt mad about it, but don’t react to her anger. That’s not your problem and she will cool off later when she thinks about it a little more.
If it works, great. If it doesn’t, then let it go.
I’ve skipped other replies so as not to be swayed by other opinions. That said, I have learned that a “loan” to a family member or close friend is really a “gift” and should be treated as such. Expecting a refund is counting on those close ties to mean something extra. Rarely is that the case in my sphere, including my own repayment to those I have leeched from.
No matter what was said, and by whom, at the time you made the decision to part with your money on their behalf, it’s better to regard it as a gift to some charity or panhandler. That way, any repayment is a godsend.
I’d say write it off. This is only going to aggravate you.
I’m firmly in the camp : “never loan money you can’t afford to give”. Every time I loaned money, it was with the idea that I would never get it back. Sometimes I didn’t, as expected, sometimes I did, and perceived it as an unexpected windfall. Worked like a charm for me, and avoided poisoning any relationship. Several people “owe” me money, and I have no resentment about it. They’re probably more bothered about it than I am. Some people made remarkable efforts to reimburse me (I’m thinking here in particular of a friend who became ill, unemployed, and eventually homeless. Almost as soon as he was back on his feet with a roof over his head, I had all my money back), and they grew in my esteem for this.
There are some contexts when it might be difficult to implement : someone you really care for really, really needs the money, and you situation isn’t so good that you can afford to give it. But 95% of the time, it’s not the case. “I want to invest in a business” certainly isn’t.
Of course, you started with different expectations, but I still think you’re better off forgetting the debt. You apparently the one who’s living the situation badly (unless your sister in fact feels very guilty about this, which might be true even if she doesn’t have the resolve to make special efforts to reimburse), so spare you some more years of bitterness on top of having lost the money anyway.
I would write it off. Not for their sake, but for yours. Being angry isn’t a good way to go through life.
However, I don’t think you should forget. Not only does that mean no more loans for her, but it also means no more gifts. Christmas, birthdays, etc. Not until she at least she acknowledges the debt.
I can’t imagine being desperate enough to borrow money from a sibling and not making any attempt to pay them back. I’d at least try to repay with in-kind services if money that was hard to come by. As we say in the Black South, that’s just triflin’.
