In your defense, Lumpy: You listed a few things that haven’t happened, and some of these things have only barely happened (the MAGA bomber was inspired by Trump’s words but that’s hardly an assassination attempt by the president). But your track record on “predicting” this shit is fucking weak.
In fact, throughout the last three years, it has consistently not been those cautioning that Trump was normal but odd that were vindicated. In 2016, Keith Olbermann was laughed at for saying that Trump would make concentration camps to fulfill his immigration promises. And yet, a meager two and a half years later, here we are - concentration camps.
Now, this is not to call out Lumpy specifically. There are tons of people who agree with him! “Trump Derangement Syndrome” has been a constant refrain from the right. And this thread is to say: shame on you, anyone pushing that narrative. So far, Trump has come reasonably close to the worst expectations, and the more positive predictions have largely failed to match up with reality. And it’s quite tiresome. The left was right - Trump’s own words before he was elected painted him as a dangerous authoritarian with little to no regard for the rule of law. Assuming “it won’t be that bad” is a fool’s game. Now, three years in, and he’s consistently joking about extending his term because of a “phony” investigation (which found ten cases of obstruction of justice and indicted over 30 people with personal or business relationships with him) and shoving children into concentration camps (while arguing they don’t need soap, toothbrushes, or beds).
“But by Pitzer’s measure, the system at the southern border first set up by the Bill Clinton administration, built on by Barack Obama’s government, and brought into extreme and perilous new territory by Donald Trump and his allies does qualify. ”
Yes Trump is an incremental fascist. Incremental fascism has been the mode of the US govt since the 1930s. Mussolini and Hitler loved the New Deal. Real fascists. As for assassinating critics, we only need to go back to the political assassination of Anwar al Awlaki and his teenage son. He was an anti-US govt propagandist who ended up on Obama’s Secret Kill List. Of course they claimed he had gone “operational” but offered no proof despite his family trying to take legal action. Yes the US is in decline and has been since 9/11, the brutality of the US govt will only worsen from here on out.
As I see it, it wasn’t (and isn’t) Derangement Syndrome as much as it was/is SEEING WHAT IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOUR FACE Syndrome. Donnie as Prez has turned out to be much worse than I feared he would be. Early on and for a long time, there was a feeling of “it won’t be that bad,” and the sense that “any day now” he would start acting like a President. He hired some smart people and there was hope he would listen to them. Maybe it would be okay. After all, he CAN’T be **that **stupid and self-absorbed. He’s the fucking President of the United States! He’s got to take that seriously!
HA! All of that pathetic hope is ancient history now.
Right after the election, yeah, I was a bit hysterical and started several anti-trump threads. I got raked over the coals and some Dopers said I should be banned for overreacting. If you go back and read the first few pages of the now-mammoth Clusterfuck thread, you’ll see that.
Turns out the hysteria was completely appropriate, and in fact, probably not commensurate with the outrageous acts that this so-called President would go on to commit/permit/promote.
Who could have foreseen immigrant parents and children separated, the children and TODDLERS (FFS) uncared-for while confined to fenced compounds, denied the most basic human comfort and care, some of them even DYING from neglect? If the country had known the day after the election that this is what it would eventually come to, if we had known this before we were USED TO IT… would we have called the outrage Trump Derangement Syndrome then?
It has indeed been worse than anyone could have imagined, but here’s a scary thought: as the election approaches he’s reversed himself on two of the most recent lunatic plans – Iran attacks and the deportation raids – to try to project some tiny semblance of rational normalcy. Which must have been tough for him, but he does desperately want to get re-elected.
The scary thought is what the second term would be like if he does get re-elected. You’ll have a complete lunatic in the White House with absolutely nothing to lose, going totally nuts. If the first term was worse than anything anyone could ever have imagined, just try to imagine the second one!
Just in case anyone cares, the phrasing “X Derangement Syndrome” is a very old Limbaughism, dating back to the early 1990s with “Bush Derangement Syndrome” (opposing Repubs), then “Clinton Derangement Syndrome” (supporting Clinton), etc. Anyone who unironically tosses this one off has had too much education in broadcasting.
The answer is yes; he would have been elected anyway. I’ll be the one to put that out there, clear as daylight.
This country is fundamentally broken. The systems in place are not helping and occasionally are actively hurting citizens. More than half the population works to make the top 10% prosperous while being denied that prosperity themselves. The reasons Trump got in office are not because he’s racist, misogynistic or hateful; those are just gratuities. He got elected because this country is not working and people no longer give a fuck about it; why should they?
Um, I heard Trump say that it’s Obama’s fault and Trump actually put a stop to all the children being imprisoned. Also, conditions at Kids in Kages are just peachy, thanks. Anything else you’ve heard is of course, fake news.
I’ll disagree with your last sentence. A large percentage of Americans is actually HAPPY rights are being denied people, and that people are being hurt, so long as the right people are being oppressed. Empathy is lacking in the modern American Conservative. They are incapable of seeing that their own rights could be curtailed next, even if you spelled it out in 10 foot high burning letters.
People are getting exactly what they want. And this has been building for a long time. It’s not a purely trump thing. He’s the symptom, not the cause.
I think what JAQ meant was that you implied that people were apathetic in your suggestion that while the country is not working, “people no longer give a fuck about it”. The disagreement is that it’s not a matter of apathy (or at least not exclusively), but rather that some people like the country not working because it leads to the oppression of those they don’t like. Contrast someone seeing human suffering and ignoring it, and someone seeing human suffering and celebrating because it’s deserved.
I will suggest from my own interpretation that your statement meant to only imply that not enough people were concerned about the issues to reject Trump as a candidate. That’s inclusive of people who are apathetic as well as those who were openly supportive of his policies and statements.
Thanks for the attempt to clarify; it’s appreciated.
It isn’t that people weren’t concerned enough. It’s that people know that government won’t listen and it won’t react correctly. Because that’s their experience AND that’s what one half of the political parties in the US have been telling them for more than 40 years now. That’s at least one entire generation that’s been raised from birth with half the country telling them that the government doesn’t work. Then that same party has done what they can to make sure that government doesn’t function properly, reinforcing their message.
How in the fuck does anyone expect the US population to create or maintain a functioning government when the population is as deceived and beaten down as the US population has been for the last 40 years?
The answer is: the people spreading that message don’t expect or want to maintain this functioning government. And a significant potion of the population, through ignorance, apathy and frustration, is actively helping them.
It’s more Trump Permission Syndrome. The Republicans have been monsters for decades now, but it’s been taboo to admit it no matter how horribly they act or what they say. Our entire society is a machine for sucking up to the Republican party. The Republicans have gotten as far as they have in large part because their opponents constantly defer to them, make excuses for them, and are usually less willing to criticize Republicans than other Republicans are.
Trump *isn’t *a real Republican however, so people feel they can talk more honestly about him and what he does. Democrats and centrists who would be making excuses for a Bush or Reagan feel free to condemn Trump for doing the same kind of things.