Based on the first paragraph of my last post, I bid you all Good Night.
Not unrestricted. While the USSC did set up the trimester system in Roe v Wade 410 US 113, it later held in Planned Parenthood of Southeastern PA vs Casey 505 US 833 (1992) that states may enact laws pertaining to abortion in the first trimester which do not place an “undue burden” on the exercise of a woman’s constitutional rights. This standard is, IMHO, sickening. It has been used to uphold things like 24 hour waiting periods (forcing women of limited means without ready access to an abortion facility to make multiple trips) and requiring abortion providers to give women state-approved materials on fetal development (as if women are unaware that babies come from fetuses). Casey was a mishmash of an opinion, part plurality, part majority, mostly a mess, but important because it affirmed the basic constitutional underpinning of Roe (relying on stare decisis in the face of the minority’s concerted effort to overrule Roe in its entirety).
This link is a searchable database of USSC decisions and other material.
Here’s a link to Roe v. Wade.
one approach would be just not to have any laws criminalizing abortion, and leave it entirely to the woman and her conscience - that’s the legal position in Canada.
What is it in other countries? ColdFire? Irishman? Guanolad? Any ideas?
Phoenix: what possible difference does it make to your thesis whether or not RU486 or any other “morning after” pill. Using such a pill would still be performing an abortion for the purpose of birth control.
I’m now not sure what your thesis is: should only icky abortions be restricted as opposed to non-icky ones? Are you trying to draw the line somewhere after conception but before viability?
And are you asking us to accept your moral judgements as self-evident?
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
I know I’m going to Hell for saying this…
But abortions already prevent abuse. They keep unwanted children from coming into the world to parents that lack the ability or desire to care for them. I realize that this will probably work some people into a tizzy but hell before abortion how popular was infanticide (sp?).
My its getting hot in here.
I don’t know a lot about RU486, but I can tell you for sure that the Morning After pill is NOT the equivalent of an abortion. It prevents conception from taking place entirely, so it is in fact birth control, but a measure taken after sex rather than before.
This wouldn’t necessarily be a breezy step either-- it’s exactly like taking 4 regular birth control pills, and two is enough to make me puke my lungs out. However, I think it must be infinitely preferable.
I agree that further education, especially about the Morning After pill (and the fact that is is not a small, do-it-yourself abortion) would be wisest. I get leery of legislation about abortion.
Sorry, that second quote there is from Central Washington’s Planned Parenthood web site.
Conception occurs when the egg and sperm unite. If the morning after pill doesn’t prevent the release of the egg, it may not prevent conception. It will, however, prevent implantation.
I spent several years undergoing infertility treatments. As far as could be told, I could conceive just fine, but had problems with implantation. Hence I was never actually pregnant during this time and never miscarried. It is estimated that 25% of conceptions do not implant naturally.
Single Dad;
My thesis is that abortion is being used all too often as a form of post de facto birth control. This is an abuse of the medical procedure. I am not trying to force my moral views on anyone; I am asking opinions. And, I am trying to see if there is an interest in trying to increase sexual education, the availablity of contraceptives, and greater awareness of the Morning After Pill(now that I know about it).
If there is no way to amend the laws without harming a majority of the people; we should leave them alone. However, if there does indeed exist a way to prevent abuse of a medical procedure, we should explore it.
People do not take morphine except for pain; any other use is illegal and an abuse of the medical system. We regulate prescriptions. Why should we not regulate medical procedures; saving them for those who truly need them?
The time for abortion as a post de facto contraceptive is passed; contraceptives are cheap and plentiful. My personal position on abortion has nothing to do with morality or religion; it has to do with the belief that people should take responsibility for the consequences of their actions.
Basically; I feel the American indoctrination of “Looking Out For #1” is stupid.
But; just my PERSONAL opinion. I’ll not force it on any of you.
Like I said; this is a discussion; a brainstorming session. I just want to know what you think. If you feel the laws should be left alone; fine. If you feel they should be changed; fine.
Phoenix
Sors immanis et inanis, rota tu volubilis, status malus, vana salus semper dissolubilis.
Carmina Burana: Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi–O Fortuna. Carl Orff: 1937
What constitutes abuse? Who decides? Why are my morals or anyone else’s your business or mine?
What a person does is none of your damn business, unless they specifically ask you for advice, or their decisions directly affect you. That said, I do not feel that a person who has an abortion as a sort of post facto birth control is behaving responsibly. However, this is not my business, and I will cheerfully keep mum unless asked.
Are you the reason this hypothetical woman is pregnant? If so, I would hope she would ask for your input before having an abortion, but I don’t feel that she’s under any obligation to do so. And, regardless of your input, it’s her decision.
A committee is a lifeform with six or more legs and no brain.
How far are you willing to go with this? I mean, people don’t always need plastic surgery, but it’s a billion-dollar industry right now, because people want it.
I don’t like the idea of some people using abortion as birth control, nor do I like the idea of people abusing their bodies with repeated unnecessary plastic surgeries. But you can’t really regulate one without being prepared to regulate them all. I don’t much like that idea, either. It comes back to the issue of choice. I am pro-choice. I choose not to have a nose job. But if you want one, that is a decision that is best left up to you and your doctor. If you want a whole new face, just because, it’s still up to you and your doctor.
This space blank, until Wally thinks up something cool to put here.
Phoenix:
And you have heard them. The predominant opinion seems that abortion for birth control is not an abuse and thus there is no need to address it.
Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
Okay; if you feel that the laws should not be altered, it is okay with me. No, it does not affect me personally, since I am not involved with any man at the moment. But, it has affected my friends.
Perhaps instead of concentrating on what I intended to be the topic, we should discuss how to educate people on the availability of the Morning-After Pill. Does anyone know why the medical community is keeping so hush hush on that topic?
And I couldn’t get a woman pregnant, Jo3sh, seeing as how I am a woman myself.
Phoenix
Sors immanis et inanis, rota tu volubilis, status malus, vana salus semper dissolubilis.
Carmina Burana: Fortuna Imperatrix Mundi–O Fortuna. Carl Orff: 1937