In the numerous threads about banning abortion, I notice that there are penalties given to the women, the doctors, the lawyers, etc…but none to the men who fertilize these eggs and leave to do it to another woman.
What I mean by penalties, i mean castration or some other form of sterilization. It seems reasonable to some, that if a woman has more than one abortion, she should be sterilized or even imprisoned for murder. Yet men who impregnate and run, get to do it again and again. What happens to them? Aren’t they co-defendants? I mean they know that the woman, can’t afford or be able to have a baby, yet they have unprotect sex anyway. Isn’t that a form of ‘indifference to human life’ since the result of an attempted abortion is assured?
Is there a reason why the burden is placed solely on a woman? If so, then why do ‘we’ get to tell her what to do, if the father doesn’t even have to share her punishment?
Does he go to jail too? How many times does he get to have unprotected sex, before he goes to prison or get his manhood removed? Do we begin sterilizing 16 years olds, who had too much beer and had unprotected sex and decides to join the Navy? What if he offers to pay for 1/2 the abortion? Does he only lose one ball?
holmes, I assume that it’s because men don’t have anything to do with the abortion, legally speaking. Since a man cannot force a woman to get an abortion or prevent her from getting one if she so desires*, why should he be punished for something he had no say in (legally speaking)? Assuming that it’s consensual sex, they both should assume that there is the possibility of procreation and take the appropriate steps to prevent it. If they don’t, or if birth control fails, the man can only make his wishes known. The final decision is completely up to the woman. Whether this is a good method or not is a completely different GD
I’m not up on the current abortion laws but I’m unaware of any place in America where a man’s approval is needed for a woman to get an abortion. If I’m wrong, please let me know.
Follow up: This OP is a result of a conversation between the female family members and myself concerning birth control. I told my neice that SHE was ultimately responsible for her reproduction, that it would be extreme foolish to rely on anyone else, especially a man.
In other words, If she gets pregnant, it’s her ‘fault’, not counting act of god…
They didn’t like that…but I reminded them that as a man, I can leave. I have no ties to the baby, save the ones I impose upon myself or the ones that the government can tie me down with and even then…they are not physical.
The ‘burden’ is on a woman. Live or die, it’s all on her.
And so the OP, if I can charm the panties off any girl I wish and I keep doing it, knowing full well the results of my actions will be pregnancy, what happens to me, when they elect to have an abortion and abortion is illegal and I encourage them to do so?
Why does a woman go to prison and I get to bang some more or do I go to prison or get sterlized too?
Right, but the argument is, is that women or doctors must be punished for having or performing an abortion. Some may say, that the very notion of a woman having an abortion, proves that she is unfit or unworthly to reproduce. Had she been more careful or more ‘decent’, she wouldn’t be knocked up in the first place, ‘murdering’ her baby.
So if she won’t go to prison, she should at least be sterilized to prevent her from ‘murdering’ anymore babies. She knew the results of her actions.
Well it takes two to tango. A man knows the results too and if there’s a pattern of luv 'em and leave them…without any attempt to ‘do the right thing’, then where’s his punishment?
I don’t have to pull the trigger to be considered an defendant in a murder case, all I have to do is know about it, aid in the act or cover-up the aftermath.
If the laws were as you described, I can see why this would be different. On the practical side, it would probably be very difficult to prosecute. If I just told you to go kill somebody or rob a bank and you did, it would be very difficult to charge me with anything*. Likewise, unless I helped you plan and/or get an abortion, just telling you to would be difficult to prove. Also, proving a “cycle” of luv 'em and leave 'em would be very difficult. Since the abortion has taken place, there is no proof that said man was the father, just the woman’s word that he was the only one it could possibly be.
I’m not talking about planning it, I’m just talking about saying “Hey, all your money/work/pregnecy problems would be over if you robbed a bank/killed your boss/got an abortion”
Peace-DESK
DNA on the fetus. So let’s say we have 20 fetus, from different women all fathered by the same man. There’s your pattern. Let’s say that he promised some of them that ‘if’ they got pregnant he would help raise the baby, only to ‘change’ is mind after the fact. Some of these promises are written down.
They women have all the pressures of an unwanted pregnancy weighting on them…he gives them half the money for an abortion and tells them to get lost. Let’s say the funds are traceable.
The women have abortions, which are now illegal. Some are sterilized for their ‘crimes’, others go to prison. The doctors are jailed and or lose their licences.
What happens to him?
Since when has practically entered the anti-choice movement?
If the father of the aborted baby did pay for any of the proscribed procedure, and it can be proven, then he would be just as guilty as the person having it done.
If he just runs around impregnating as many as he wants like you suggested his punishment will be paying support for them. Failing to do so can get him hard jail time.
And your choice of calling pro-life people anti-choice is just as bad as calling pro-choice people anti-life. All either do is try to make the other side look even worse.
If the laws where as you described, and the woman and doctor would both be liable, then it is very likely the man would be charged with aiding and abetting(sp) a crime. Getting the woman pregnant is not a crime. If all he dos is get her pregnant and is not involved in the illegal abortion, then he is not liable for anything. If he is involved then he should be punished under your laws.
If a sell my handgun legally to my neighbor, and he goes and robs a bank with it, I am not liable as long as the selling was legal.
I apologise. I seem to have unintentionally hijacked your thread slightly. Upon re-re-reading your OP, it seems you would like to know the thought processes behind the anti-choice crowd not mentioning the father, rather then the reasons why he wouldn’t/shouldn’t be mentioned if these laws were enacted. While I’ll be happy to continue the second, the first is a mystery to me (being pro-choice).
I really should know better then enter GD when operating on little sleep (two sick daughters who figure mom and dad both need to be up all night)
I know exactly how you feel. At least it’s not your reading comprehension that’s off.
So we castrate him, right? or put him in prison. Is there an age limit? So, if I’m sixteen, get my girlfriend pregnant, pay for her abortion and get caught…i lose my balls, right? or go to prison and get gang raped or maybe aids.
Except for the rich of course and the irresponsible, they get to have has many kids as they can’t afford to take care of or leave the country.
Once again, the working class gets ‘screwed’.
But I’ll tell you this, the surest way to have ’ the make abortion illegal’ movement fail, is to tell the American public, you’ll treat their sons, the same way you’ll treat their daugthers.
Then we’ll out committeed they are, when their sons are the ones strapped to a table or sitting in cell and not just some ‘slut’.
geez… chill. Reminds me of seeing protesters frothing at the mouth demanding the death penalty for anyone who’s not a vegan.
Seriously. People who want to sterilize women who have abortions, even if abortion is eventually made illegal, are just as wacky as your idea. It would never happen and no one believes it should, save a couple kooks out there. But hey, kooks will be kooks. Let them rant and rave and eventually they’ll leave you alone. Arguing with them just inflates their ego even more.
In the meantime, think logically. Don’t argue an illogical position that “balances out” an illogical extension of a law that hasn’t even been made yet, much less accepted, much less passed.
As far as I know castration and/or sterilization are not punishments normally given. Why do you seem sp preoccupied with them? Is this connected to another thread or from your conversation with your family?
If abortion was now considered manslaugher/musrder then the punishments would be consistant with what they currently are I would think. Unless some new laws were made to deal with people who have/help with abortions.
Do you have any children? I have 2 boys and a girl. And I think they all should be treated the exact same way.
The point I was trying to show was that there seemed this innate, i don’t know… contempt of women…of their rights. That no matter what the situation, not matter what the reasons…ONLY they get to pay the price.
Unfortunately, you can’t be gentle with them and honestly I’m interested in why their sons don’t have to pay, but my daughters do.
Sorry it doesn’t interest you or my “passion” offends.
Conflict, there’s a thread containing a bit more “agressive” treatment of women who have “illegal” abortions. Part of their punishment is to be sterlization.
I found it interesting, that at no time were men given the same ‘treatment’ as the women offenders. And yes while some the thread was ‘illogical’, i felt it showed a certain mindset, concerning women and control over their bodies.
I wanted to explore that.
As I thought might occur, once you remove the ‘sanitation’ of the procedure and used, shall we say more colorful language and images, change the sex from women to men, people would become uncomfortable with it.
Problem is, virtually everyone is biased on one side or the other of the issue. I personally don’t have any “contempt of women” and I don’t condone it, but your view of the situation seems to be entirely backwards.
Blatant misunderstanding of virtually every law related to parenting.
If a man and woman conceive, and the woman becomes pregnant, the man gets to pay child support, should the woman so wish it, for 18-21 years. He has no say in the matter. Also, the woman can elect to have an abortion, or not. He has no say in the matter. I’d say this is unfair to men.
If a man and woman divorce, she gets the kids and he gets to pay child support. Again, he has virtually no say. Some exceptions are made when the woman is a drug-dealing alcoholic ex-convict, but not many. Again, unfair to men.
I hope this opens your eyes a little to the fact that society is just as unfair to men in some situations as it is to women in others.
Again, I repeat that kooks are kooks. If Jerry Springer has taught me anything, it’s that there will always be someone who has a competely radical viewpoint on any subject. Grit your teeth and ignore them. And be assured that the majority of this forum agrees with you, at least on the ridiculousness of this one topic.
I was using the examples of divorce and child support to demonstrate that your seeming belief that all of society is unfair to women is innaccurate.
I believe this is perfectly on topic. Your OP theory is indeed illogical and extreme, and your mindset behind the formulation of it is incorrect. Wherein is the hijack?