I presume there’s no statues of United Empire Loyalists in the US following the revolution either. 
In the South, it’s more like Black Lives Splatter.
Duty as a Southerner? What about their duty as a decent human being? And is this uniquely Southern act of decency defined as “not letting someone die”;or is it “not letting someone die even though you believe they are subhuman”? Is the bar for virtue really set so low that this is what passes for virtue in the South.
I’m aware of this mentality. When I was a teen we had a small party at the house of a friend. One of the girls that attended was black. After the party was over, my friend’s father, who was a classic Southern redneck called us into his study and lectured us. Because even though our friend was nice and a good student and everything, she MIGHT have brothers. And she MIGHT mention the gun collection to her brothers, who would then break into his house and slaughter everyone in their sleep.
But he also used this opportunity to give us a lesson in Southern decency. He made sure we understood that refrained from embarrassing this girl by not throwing her out of his home-in spite of the mortal danger she presented- because he was a decent and kind Southern man.
Not to mention that my own white brother was a one person crime spree, and everyone knew it.
There is an asshat in my neighborhood with a very expensive tricked-out pick-up truck. He had it converted for coal-rolling, I think they call it - that thing where you deliberately shoot clouds of noxious black smoke into the air in order to “pwn the libs“. The words “Black Smoke Matters” are stenciled onto the side of this truck in very large letters.
I’m trying to decide if the decent Southern gentleman that owns this truck would stop to give food and water to a black family in distress. He might, just so he could destroy it with belching black smoke before they could consume it.
I get it, it get that most Southerners aren’t in favor of actively murdering blacks. I just think that’s an awfully low bar for “pride”.
ETA: This was really directed at the person to whom HMS Irruncible replied to. Not getting the hang of multi-quoting yet,
Ynnad:
Why would the truck occupants do this? Because their “Southern Pride” demands it. They would see it as their duty as a Southerner to assist any traveler in distress.
I drove a jalopy the five years I lived in New Jersey. I can remember three different occasions when I needed rescue from the side of the road. Guess what? Someone always came and saved me. Two of those times were complete strangers and the other time was a coworker who wasn’t really my friend–just a nice guy.
Never once did my rescuers pound their chest and brag about how their decency was linked to where they were brought up. Why? Because that shit is cringey! And also, good people don’t have to tell you they are good. You can just tell from their actions. Goodness isn’t something be proud of anyway. It really isn’t that hard to be nice.
Southerners are more friendly than Northerners. Southerners “speak” to strangers. Northerners tend to keep it moving without uttering a word. But that’s where the social differences end, IMHO. I am fine with the friendliness but only because I’ve been born and raised on it. I sometimes miss the “keep it moving” program, though.
No one should take pride in their heritage or be proud of their ancestors. No one. All societies should balance the good with their history of bad deeds.
Any society that has pride in itself as a central characteristic and obscures its crimes is suspect.
I disagree with this.
People can feel pride in whatever they want to feel pride in. Pride is no different than any other emotion. It is what it is. You can’t shame yourself out of feeling a certain way.
But you can help what you do with that feeling.
When we vacationed in Myrtle Beach where my son’s SIL lived, she pulled us aside and warned us not to say anything political in public because, you know, this was SC. And this was long before Trump (Bush 43).
Since I am posting and NJ has been mentioned above, I will mention something that might surprise. NJ, at least southern NJ where my wife grew up, had school segregation until WWII. The school she went to had been the black school once.
whats never helped is the upper crust of southern society always liked “the trash” be it black or white fighting each other because if they ever stopped to realize they were both being exploited and then want better ages and such
That’s why the factory owners and such didn’t line the northern union agitators coming down because they saw the whole picture
If pride is an emotion, it should be treated like hate, jealousy, and other destructive emotions that we deal with, not indulge.
Sometimes I feel a positive emotion when I think about myself in the context of the legacy of black Americans. I can’t articulate why I feel this emotion. I call it “pride”, but I don’t know if that’s the best descriptor. Sometimes it feels like pride, but something it just feels like an emotion the English language has no word for. What’s the emotion for “glad to be figuratively carrying on a lineage that has achieved so much, despite facing a shitload adversity” We have no word for this feeling, so “pride” will just have to do.
How is someone going to tell me I’m wrong for feeling this way? It’s like telling someone they are wrong for being proud of their kids or wrong for feeling school spirit. Every day people feel pride over shit they had nothing to do with. BIG FUCKING WHOOP! A feeling can’t be wrong. It’s a neurochemical reaction no different than any other. No one decides to feel pride. We need to let people feel whatever they are inclined to feel without making a big deal out of it.
I feel the exact same way about jealousy and hate. You can be as jelly as you are inclined to be. You can hate someone or something as you much as you are inclined to. These feelings may be completely bizarro and unreasonable, but they can also be quite normal and understandable depending on the situation. I don’t know any decent person who would shame someone for hating their abuser or being jealous of the favored child in the family. People are perfectly capable of feeling whatever they are inclined to feel while maintaining enough self-awareness to behave how they “should” behave.
I’m not going to condemn a person for not having the “right” emotions about stuff, because thought policing never works. Your fellow man is only entitled to decent treatment from you. They aren’t entitled to your thoughts and feelings too.
There are a lot of emotions we don’t indulge with flags, parades, and holidays. I think it would be great if pride in one’s ancestors were one of them.
I don’t know a better word, but I know what you mean.
‘They did their damndest, but they couldn’t destroy us. And here am I to prove it.’
Waving a flag and celebrating a holiday are behaviors, though. Feeling pride isn’t.
I just took a long walk and I started thinking about all the social categories that I belong to. I have feelings about all of them–few of them negative. “Southern” is a category I belong to and even as a black person, I feel something akin to pride about it. Like, when someone suggests that I must be an outsider due to my “proper” accent/speech patterns, I proudly let that person know that I wasn’t just raised in the South, but I was raised in the Dirty Souf. Why I experience a positive emotion about this association, I have no idea. But it’s there in my brain. I didn’t wake up one day and decide to put it there.
But I’m totally against symbols of the Confederacy being showcased and waved in public spaces outside of museums. And I don’t believe Southerners are better than anyone else or that Southerners are special. You can have pride in something and still be able to look at that something with some objectivity and detachment.
In other words, Texas pride is based on myths. Texas did fight to gain its independence from Mexico, but many Texans were hoping for U.S. annexation from the get-go, as Texas was deeply in debt and couldn’t muster a big enough military to defend its borders.
The original Anglo settlers of Mexican Texas were recruited almost exclusively from the American South, and Anglo Texans were overwhelmingly in favor of slavery. Texans can ignore the grim reality of their history in favor of the Hollywood version, but the rest of us aren’t too impressed.
Pride in one’s ancestry/tribal group is fine.
Just don’t celebrate false distinctions from other folks, or worse, take pride in destructive characteristics.
There’s something wrong with taking pride in something you didn’t do. I don’t care what your ancestors did, you didn’t do it, you deserve no credit for it.
I understand, but do you see the contradiction here? Most of the south’s negative PR is based on the fact that it IS “past time”. When you have states that still fly the Confederate flag next to the flag of the United States, that is sending a resounding message.
Flags represent a nation and what it is, and the Confederate States of America was a racist slave state. Imagine if the Nazi flag was being displayed next to the modern flag of Germany. What message would that send? What if there were still statues of Hitler and other prominent Nazi leaders in today’s Germany. What message would that send?
You say things are “much better”. Prove it by ridding yourself of all that stuff, and the rest of the nation will believe you.
The thing is, the South does have a lot to be genuinely proud of. All of the best cuisine in this country comes from the South. A lot of the best music, too. If you really wanted to show Southern pride, then you’d put up a statue of a bowl of grits.
But it’s not Yankees who are attacking Southerners. If you ask Southerners themselves about “Southern heritage”, or “southern pride”, they always, invariably, point to slavery in one way or another. “Southern heritage” is the generals who committed treason (against their nation and state) for the sake of perpetuating slavery. It’s the plantation houses built and maintained by slaves. It’s the flag that says “I, too, am committing treason for the sake of slavery”. If you don’t want others to think of the South as all negative, then stop celebrating the negative things.
My mother always says she is proud of me when I do something impressive. Every award or recognition I have received, my mother’s pride has been palpable. Even now with me being a grown-ass woman. She has had no hand in my accomplishments of adulthood, and yet she feels proud. Imagine that. I’m guessing it has something to do with me being I am a reflection of her. When she sees me, she sees herself.
Pride in one’s ancestry is the same thing, except in reverse. When I think of all the great folks in history who carried the same sociopolitical banner that I carry now, I see myself in them and them in me.
I just can’t relate to someone who believes it is shameful to feel pride in one’s ancestry, both real (genetic) or figurative (cultural). I can understand how one can feel neutral about their culture or ancestry or community. But I can’t understand why it bothers you (and others) so much that not everyone is similarly detached. As long as they aren’t walking around talking about how their ancestors or culture are better than anyone else’s, why is it so “wrong”? Can you articulate that for me cuz I’m just not getting it.
I know this much: Pride in one’s culture motivates a person to take care of their culture and the members within it. Without community pride, you have a barren wasteland where no one bothers to look after each other. Many white folks love to preach to black people about “black dysfunctionality” and how black people need to do X,Y, and Z to uplift their communities. Well, you can’t expect people to care about their communities while also telling them it’s wrong to feel pride in their communities. Those two messages in are severe conflict with each other. I’d rather live in a society where everyone has pride in their community (however they want to define it) versus a society where everyone is an rugged individualist who only takes pride in their personal accomplishments. That society is kinda-sorta the one we have now. And look where it has left us.
I understand that, but I think the general idea of taking pride in the actions of others, which is a bit different that being proud of a child, especially when you’ve been an actual parent and had something to do with that child’s achievements.
I think social conditioning has taken us to a feeling of pride where admiration is the feeling that is due. I admire my grandmother for what she did to bring my family to this country a century ago, and I strive to act in a way that others could admire, but I don’t feel like perpetuating the idea that I should have pride in what my ancestors did, and you can see how that concept has manifested in the South where people are proud of horrible ancestry. That’s what happens when we urge people to feel pride by association. I know I’ll get plenty of disagreement about this, that’s just part of being me and seeing the world a differently.