My flatmate in Spain was particularly bemused by the maple leafs on all the Canadian tourists’ rucksacks. She didn’t realise they wear them to distinguish themselves from Americans - instead she concluded that Canadians are (her phrase) “stupidly nationalistic”.
I think that this statement is somewhat presumptious and is clearly spoken from an American perspective. To the Brits and every other country in the world, it is the American who demonstrates his cultural identity through their manner of speech - you can see my thoughts on this in Great Debates: ‘Why Are the Americans Ruining Our Language’. His dress is usually a Hawaian shirt, fifteen cameras / camcorders around their necks and what I think are called ‘fanny packs’ containing all their luggage around their waist.
As for mannerisms - don’t ask.
Although this is a facetious response to your well-meant reply to my OP, I think that you are very wide of the mark in making these statements about cultural identity. Cultural diversity is as prevalent in most European countries as it is in the US - the only difference is that the European countries’ existence isn’t based on it. My thoughts would be that the Europeans are slightly embarrassed by the implications of flag waving - it being so directly linked to nationalism and empire building (as has been previously said). You are basically saying that Americans wave flags out of a collective sense of insecurity about their heritage - try persuading your average flag-waving-man-in-the-street-American that this is the reason he is doing it.
I don’t fly the flag myself. It is nationalism (patriotism is the word Americans use to describe American nationalism, because nationalism is only practiced by evil foreigners). Nationalism means pride for one’s country. Nothing good ever comes from nationalism. In fact, it’s not a coincidence that ‘nationalism’ and ‘Nazi’ begin with the same letter. For that matter, nothing good can come out of what I call “vague prides” which include nationalism, racism, sexism, religious fanaticism, etc. Bush the hypocrite is helping the recent nationalistic frenzy of flag-waving yet begs the help of the international community to help America “fight terrorism.”
Speaking of which, his whole “war on terrorism” should remind us of such books as 1984 and such historical events as the McCarthy era. The hypocrites in Washington put the Taliban there in the first place! When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan (beating the US by about 20 years), the US funded the Taliban and gave them all those tanks! But to help the nationalistic frenzy, the media doesn’t inform you of that fact.
Some scary related articles you may want to read:
Ahhhh… Old Glory!
Ya know(well, you probably didn’t), I spent a year in Brasil and many of my friends their couldn’t understand our(Americans) constant displays of patriotism(nationalism??). You very seldom hear the national anthem, and see the flag almost exclusiely on election day, national soccer games, and car races involving Brasilian drivers. I think that’s how they show their patriotism, is in support of a member of their country in an international competition.
Am I rambling here??
I think what I’m trying to say is that probably every country has different ways of showing the pride they feel in their country, and the U.S. …ah hell…
I don’t think I’ve got a clue as to what I’m talking about. I hope someone can make a little bit of sense of what I just wrote.
anyway…
Do you think that it’s more than coincidence that Schweiz and Switzerland start with the same letters, too? Or are you trying in a very strange manner to indicate that “Nazi” is an Abkürzung (abbreviation- look at all of these coincidences!) for Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei? (National=national) Just a question. I’m not trying to sound antagonistic, I was just curious as to whether or not that was why “it’s no coincidence.”
Anyway, Germans don’t really seem to display the flag much other than outside of government buildings, either, but then they do have a very bad repution… it’s sad that they can’t feel any sense of national pride whatsoever without someone jumping down their throats. Not that the NSDAP is an appropriate symbol of nationalism. It’s not.
The only problem with national pride is when you start thinking “Those stupid [Canadians, Frenchies, Czechs, or what you will] just don’t get it. We need to invade them, tell them what’s what, and steal their resources. Then we will PROVE we are #1.” If it’s just a tool for unity and solidarity in an otherwise culturally fragmented state (bzw the US) then it’s ok.
Jelly, if you’re going to rant at least get your goddamn facts right. The US funded the Mujahadeen, NOT THE TALIBAN. The Taliban grew out of a fanatical faction of the Mujahadeen - and the United States has opposed them from the start. We never recognized them as any kind of legitimate government. The rest of the Mujahadeen, who were royally screwed over by the Taliban, are now referred to as the “Northern Alliance”. Granted, there is a real risk that this “Alliance” will fall into factional fighting agian, but the whole reason they’re fighting together right now is to oppose the fanatics who took over their country 5 years ago.
But I’m sure you’re right about us providing them with all the outdated Soviet tanks they captured all those years ago.
Things do not become fact just because you decide that it must be so. Educate yourself before you make grand declarations. Don’t rely on just one side of a story, or base all of your opinions on other peoples opinions. Socialist party websites are not known for their balanced reporting of ANYTHING AT ALL, and anyone who bases their entire world view on what a socialist political group says is a damned fool. Just because assistance and aid were given to the rebel groups who fought the Soviets does not mean we outfitted them with every single weapon they have - in fact, the only weapons we gave them were Stinger missiles to take out Soviet aircraft and helicopters - missiles with a shelf life of about 5 to 6 years. The likelihood that they might still have any functional American weapons is about the same as you voting for the next Republican presidential candidate.
Now, unlike Jelly, I will apologize for taking part in this hijack that has no place in this discussion about the flag. I don’t like to get into arguments on the board, but I’ve gotten tired of seeing Jelly spout off about how anyone who respects the US flag must be some kind of Nazi and related bullshit.
Well…I think that it isn’t that simple,actually. It seems to me that you and Jelly should abstain from these posts, since at the same time, some people like me would feel the urge to respond and we can’t really do that without further hijacking the thread and transforming it in a Great Debate.
clairobscur, you are correct. That’s not normally a reaction I would have, but I’ve read several similar rants from Jelly in other threads and I got fed up. I know I should just ignore anything that comes off of his/her keyboard, but I guess i was especially irritable this morning.
Again, I apologize for helping to hijack this thread far, far away from the actual topic. So I’ll try to bring it back.
Not only have I noticed the increased number of American flags being flown currently, but one thing has always made me wonder: do people in other states fly their state flag as much as Texans do? I haven’t been to too many other states (five to be exact) but the only time I’ve noticed state flags flying outside Texas was one or two times in New Mexico. We spent a week in Seattle and I still have no idea what the Washington state flag looks like. Anyone wanna comment or theorize? I know the stereotypical Texan is inordinately proud of his/her state, but let’s try to stay away from broad stereotypes…
Well, the Washington state flag is ugly.
That, however, has never stoped anyone from flying a flag. The only place I’ve noticed the Washington flag flying is over givernment buildings or to camoflauge construction (a horrific radio transmitter was put up at a local community college - it looks like a huge dildo - and a WA state flag was hung from it, making it look like a huge WA state dildo). I agree with… the person (sorry, I forgot to take don the name) who said that we all have different ways of showing our pride - in WA, it’s via Mariners and lattes.
And I think that’s true for many countries - they have other symbols that have caught the general populace’s consciousness better than a flag.