And from reading the article, the actual farm labor and Chicano community leaders are reported as mostly willing to deal with the discomfort to get to the other side of this, as they should be. So she need not be too concerned.
Did you believe the woman who claimed Biden assaulted her in the Capital? proven to be false.
it happens. Trust but verify. Listen but check for evidence. Most of the time the victim is telling the truth- at least mostly. (memories are a funny and unreliable thing)
I started by reading other news articles about this, as I didnt know the OP had provided us with a Gift link, and of course the NYT is paywalled. Those gave no evidence and sketchy details. When I read the NYT article, I saw they had evidence, and it looked pretty solid. This is sad.
But whatta bout the .001% of false accusations?
You want to send a message to current perpetrators? Arrest them and put them in prison.
Trump didn’t rape her. Chavez did.
It has nothing to do with the political leanings of the rapist.
I don’t understand this attitude.
Fake accusations, where the so called “victim” is making it up are rare. But false accusations are not so rare. Remember the McMartin pre-school case? There were a bunch of those. And the kids- by and large- werent lying. Those were their memories- “recovered memories”- when you hear that term- get out your cynics eye. So, when it is nothing but memories- the victim is almost never lying- but the memories might be false anyway.
I hope you can see the difference- in the Biden case it was all fake. In other cases- the memories are real- but are they true? The victim is honest, they believe what happened. This also happens when a biased interviewer looking for a Big Story- leads the witness into saying things that they originally didnt think they remembered. Memories can be lead or even created by bad questioning- there are several documented studies on this.
No, Better, MUCH better to have been revealed earlier, but sometimes you cant.
I want to send a message to future perpetrators. Show them that having money or power or prestige doesn’t give you the right to force yourself on women and girls, and if you can’t keep your dick in your pants, then regardless of whatever good you thknk you did in the world, we will destroy your legacy and make your name into a curse.
Recovered memories are bullshit but that kind of thing usually happens during hypnosis or with patients who already have a tenuous grip on reality. It’s not even close to the norm. Your take on this is highly insulting to victims. The implication that we can’t possibly know our own minds is galling rape-culture bullshit.
What @spiceweasel said.
Or, for that matter, boys and men.
Interesting take.
What’s the TLDW for those of that don’t have time to watch a half hour video?
Exactly. @SuntanLotion – IMO, “Interesting take” isn’t really any better than a bare link. Why do you think it’s an interesting take? Can you share a few words on what’s in that long video that you find interesting?
He says she should have spoken up long ago, as if the Movement was more important than protecting other women.
Many of the men we’ve admired have been flawed, sadly.
Not exactly a long video
It can also happen with leading questions. Several studies proved that. In one people were shown a short film where 3 men got out of a car, did some crime (for the movie) and then got back in. When the subjects were asked questions like “When the four men got out of the car, which way did they go?”- it changed their memories to now remember four men, not three.
Really, this is not my opinion, this is science-
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/mar.1000
The increased confidence is consistent with the notion that autobiographical referencing can lead to the creation of false or distorted memory.
https://www.nature.com/articles/nrn1054
The malleability of memory is becoming increasingly clear. Many influences can cause memories to change or even be created anew, including our imaginations and the leading questions or different recollections of others. The knowledge that we cannot rely on our memories, however compelling they might be, leads to questions about the validity of criminal convictions that are based largely on the testimony of victims or witnesses. Our scientific understanding of memory should be used to help the legal system to navigate this minefield.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/27849223
All these are from Google Scholar. There are many more.
https://www.apa.org/news/podcasts/speaking-of-psychology/memory-manipulated
Our memories may not be as reliable as we think. Once we experience an event, most of us likely assume that those memories stays intact forever. But there is the potential for memories to be altered or for completely false memories to be planted, according to Elizabeth Loftus, PhD. Loftus, a distinguished professor at the University of California, Irvine, is an expert on human memory and she discusses how our recollections of events and experiences may be subject to manipulation.
Moderating:
This is way off topic. @DrDeth , you have already acknowledged there is evidence that Chavez did what he’s alleged to have done. If you want to argue about the general accuracy of rape victims, please start a new thread for that.
This. Perfectly put.
The human tendency to idolize fallible fragile fellow human beings is regrettable but probably never going to change.
If only we could decide to laud the cause they publicly served, rather than setting up a golden statue with feet of clay.
For one: because at the time when it happened she, not he, would have gotten a whole lot of shit for it. You weren’t a woman living then. I was. She’d have gotten ‘why were you alone with him if you didn’t want to screw him?’
For two: because it would have been used to attack the entire movement; quite possibly successfully.
Anyone who doesn’t understand why any rape wasn’t reported fifty years ago doesn’t understand the situation fifty years ago. (And I suspect men were even less likely to report, if for slightly different reasons.)
The astonishing thing is that any rapes were reported. Unless you were entirely physically overwhelmed by a total stranger in a location everyone acknowledged you had reason to think was entirely safe, and could prove every bit of that, you’d almost certainly be told by most people that it was your own fault. Any conviction would be massively unlikely; and, while the rapist’s reputation might be somewhat damaged, the accuser’s would be more so.
There are fifty years between “when it happened” and today. Chavez died in 1993.
Sure, that is true.
But i didnt ask 'why not when it happened?" which has a reasonable answer. I asked “why now?” And the answers I was given are understandable, I think.