I did a quick search on Expedia for flights from Seattle to various east coast cities on a Sunday morning. Depending on where you’re going, there are flights leaving as early as 5:15 am. People are usually told to be at the airport an hour or two before departure, so I could see how someone could be late getting to the airport at 4:30 am.
You honestly expect a person to intervene against a man beating the shit out of another man for simply talking about his GF? How rationally do you expect him to react?
Bystanders aren’t obligated to risk their safety. They or the restaurant employees should call the cops, but that’s it.
I wish I could find the clip; IIRC the restaurant mgr called but the guy wasn’t deterred. I’m pretty much a wuss myself and the perp was REALLY big. The best chance was if everybody got him down and pinned him. Everybody just kinda stood there.
Whoa, found it!
http://www.ohio.com/news/break_news/15407676.html
The boyfriend:
*After serving nearly three years in prison the man convicted of brutally beating a pizza shop patron, an attack that was caught on videotape, is getting out of prison.
Mark Jones was granted judicial release this morning by Summit County Common Pleas Court Judge Judge Brenda Burnham Unruh, the same judge who sentenced him to four years in prison in 2005.*
The girlfriend…
Sims spent six months in jail and was ordered to undergo anger management classes and perform 50 hours of community service after pleading no contest to a charge of felonious assault.
If Ms. Trooper forced me to stop, I’d offer to hand over my licence and registration and proof of insurance, but I’m not getting out of the car unless I’ve been instructed I’m under arrest or some similar situation where getting out is required and appropriate. I’m not an emergency responder and I’m not a forklift. I have no idea how safe it is to be lifting that vehicle off the man. Ms. Trooper can wait for the professionals.
That’s not to say I wouldn’t ever help someone under any circumstances, but I really don’t see any problem with people carefully passing an accident scene without stopping to help. The article seems to imply the people passing by weren’t being all that careful, and that’s the only issue I have with them, not that they wouldn’t get out and help.
An officer is at the scene, so like has been said I would think she wanted us out of there or don’t run us over. Maybe she should have written STOP on something and held it up.
It sounds like the officer made the right call here, but suppose instead: what if lifting the SUV wasn’t immediately necessary? And doing so crushed the man’s hand?
Maybe this case was an outlier, but this really seems like a situation best left to the professionals 90% of the time.
In Tennessee if there is an accident or the police have someone pulled over, the law statees that you’re supposed to move over one lane to try to ensure the safety of the officer and people in the vehicles. And if you’re moving at 70 mph it’s hard to stop unless it’s planned - you’re often passed the scene before you could start slowing down, getting over, etc. And frankly, if I see a uniformed responder on the scene, my thought is that my lack of medical skills would make me more of a liability than an asset. I agree - this is something best left to the professionals.
As for the guy hit by the car and no one stopped or called, that’s a totally different bit of apathy. I hope I’d behave better. In fact, I’ve pulled over for animals hit.
StG
I used to stop at accidents. Since I’ve had kids though I haven’t, because leaving them alone in the car on the side of the road is an unacceptable risk for me.
I once had a job for a moving company. I went in and packed the boxes and then the movers would come in and pick them up. I was forbidden from picking up the boxes, because they were heavy and I wasn’t insured. This resulted in silly situations where a box needed to be moved and I had to go find the client (who was often smaller/weaker than I) to move it because I couldn’t touch it myself.
Although it sounds kind of silly the reason for this is a good one: I wasn’t hired because of my box-lifting skills so I wasn’t under the moving company’s insurance. So if something happened to me while lifting a box, I wouldn’t be eligible for any worker’s compensation (my concern) and I wouldn’t be able to hold my employer’s accountable for it (their concern). And I live in a country with public health care so I wasn’t even worried about medical bills.
Lifting an SUV off a person is a physically demanding thing to do, particularly for a person who’s been sitting down for a while, is not warmed up, may not be experienced with lifting heavy things, and may not be physically up to it. It’s risky.
What if a passer-by had stopped, and helped lift the car, and seriously hurt him/herself? Who would pay for their medical care? Who would support them/their family if they couldn’t work?
Note - I am not asking rhetorically, I really don’t know. These questions would certainly run through my mind if a cop asked me to help lift a car off someone.
I was not there so I can not be certain in my comments but from reading the article I would say that the trooper was a fucking idiot. I would never attempt to commandeer anyone. I would call for help and wait for the proper equipment to get there. She took a hell of a risk. They lifted the vehicle up eight inches. What if it slipped? What if someone else was injured? How stupid is it to step out in front of highway traffic at night? The man was not dying (and could have been injured worse by inexpertly being moved) the car was not on fire.
As for not stopping, I can see it. People are driving at highway speeds, see and accident, see a cop on the scene. I would be much more intent on getting through the scene safely than noticing that the trooper wants me to stop and help. I would never expect that.
Well, did anyone call for help, like on a cell phone? That might be more sensible than stopping, knowing there’s little you could do.
I’m on a very bad connection right now so I can’t watch that video or attempt to search but if it is the same one that was pitted a month or two ago close viewing shows it isn’t as bad as it looks. Look up the pit thread if you can. Some people spent way too much time watching it. After the initial shock of seeing the accident several people can be see dialing their cellphones, most likely dialing 911, the best thing they can do for the victim. Several people come to his aid in less than 30 seconds. The police arrived in a minute or so. Again this is IIRC I can’t watch it here and if it is a different video disregard. The Pit thread lays it out more clearly than I can.
Maybe they had a very rational desire to not get attacked by a crazy psychopath?
Besides, are you supposed to lift an SUV off an injured man? What if it’s the only thing holding his organs in?
Regarding the “bystander effect”, there was a case about a year ago in the Barcelona metro that was recorded by the security cameras there. An 18-year old guy started insulting and went on to hit and kick a young woman of Ecuatorian descent for racist reasons. There were other people in the train car, and they did not intervene. I imagine that they were too scared of the asshole (who was later on identified, arrested, tried and sentenced for the assault).
One of the people who did not intervene could be seen clearly enough in the security camera images to be identified by people who knew him, and his name was spread through the net. You don’t want to know the amount of opprobrium he got, and the time he has had been spending trying to justify himself.
Just my 2 eurocent!
About a year or so ago, my SIL was power-walking and fell. Hard. She was on the ground, bleeding, writhing, etc. She had her cellphone with her and called her husband to come get her, but no one else called or stopped.
Fast forward to last Tuesday. She had a major heart attack at Taste of Chicago. On the ground clutching her chest, writhing, crying, freaking out. People walked around her like she was a discarded plate of short ribs.
Her friend finally found an off-duty paramedic who got things rolling and got her to the hospital.
I think its fear that prevents people from physically assisting, however, I can’t for the life of me figure out why people can’t use their cellphone to get qualified help to someone in need.
Gee, why didn’t I think of that? :smack:
I’m not dissing anybody who was paralyzed by fear, but I don’t know if I could have stood by and done nothing. I’m not a hero and I certainly couldn’t have held my own against a guy that big in a fight. I’m not even a violent person.
But I probably would have yelled at him. If I were having a good day it would have been things like “You’re going to jail!” and “Smile for the camera!” Maybe if others joined in it wouldn’t have been so bad. I wouldn’t be surprised if those who stood by have felt a lot of guilt since it happened and I have a lower threshold for that kind of thing than most.
I heard a story after 9-11 about a pilot that supposedly said something like,
"Welcome, passengers. Before we leave the gate I’d like to address you. While our doors are open, we’re subject to airport rules and once we’re in the air, the FAA has jurisdiction. But while we’re sitting here with the door closed, I’m in charge and I can say what I want.
“A lot of people are concerned about possible terrorists on airplanes these days. I want you to remember that you outnumber them. If anybody were to try anything, throw whatever you have at them. All of you. If you don’t act like sheep, they will not be able to succeed.”
I probably got some of the details wrong, but that was the upshot. There’s some old quote like, “All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to stand by and do nothing.”
Remind me of that when you visit me in the hospital.
Everyone is a big hero on the Internet.
First of all, if shit goes down, it will probably happen so fast you generally will just be like “did that just fucking happen?” It’s not so much fear as it is a situation that is so unfamiliar IRL that you aren’t sure how to even react to it. Like if someone starts issuing an assbeating on the N train, I’m pretty sure it would take me a few moments to awake from my commuter stupor to even realize what is going on. By then it will probably be over.
I guess the only way to know is to be in that situation. I stood up verbally to a couple of bullies in school but they were NOWHERE near as big or pissed as that guy. :eek: