Prayer? God? If (notice I use the word “if”) there is a God than He/She or whatever, must have been taking a nap for the last 10,000 years of recorded history. Especially 60 years ago during the holocaust. At that time He/She must have hic cupped.
addendum to my last post:
To see an example of why I don’t believe in a Creator who interferes in human affairs, go to:
http://shamash.org/holocaust/photos/images/Belsen01.jpg
Like I said: God must have blinked on that day…
Just in case: Footprints
Desiderata and its Evil Twin can sometimes also be helpful. Rather than relying solely on the self, as you suggest, prayer helps you to focus on another, presumably more understanding, point of view. This can be very helpful when you’ve exhausted your own resources. Have you never tackled a tough homework problem, gotten completely screwed up, and found yourself asking “how would my teacher handle it” ? It can be a useful approach. Prayer, as practiced by Polycarp etc. is no doubt a great deal more complex and rewarding than this simple example, but the basis isn’t all that hard to grasp. Prayer is a good place to go when you’ve lost your way, and practicing it when you haven’t makes it more familiar for when you really need it.
On the other hand, hating or denying god just because shit happens, serves no useful purpose whatsoever. If your bent is towards athiesm, so be it. Being angry and confrontational about it doesn’t help anyone, including yourself.
What does prayer do (besides perhaps invoke a meditative state) specifically for those who have not experienced any sort of higher power through prayer? Everything about having some outside strength to rely on is pretty irrelevant if no higher power is revealed, and some will have nothing more to rely on than ourselves. At times, prayer could become almost a hindrance, if one expects that some higher power will reveal him/her/itself and give us strength and it doesn’t do so.
Prayer is what it is, and what it is, is a communication, from a human, to a power which said human has neither the depth, nor strength of mind to comprehend. Saying, thinking, or writing a prayer is communication, in the only ways we know we have available. Indeed, when you pray, you may be talking to yourself, but you never do know who else may be listening.
The problem with it though, is that there is an expectation that follows the release of a prayer. Just like you clicking on to the link that brought you here, you expect that you’ll show up at SDMB, many people believe, and I won’t say they’re mistaken, that praying will bring them stuff. I believe it does bring stuff personally, but it never brings material stuff, it only brings intangible stuff, and that same stuff can be had by meditation, chanting, drumming, and whatever else that touches that spiritual part of our brains.
I call it the tingle factor, if you’re in a room of people who are in the same frame of mind you are, and you all share a moment that touches you all equally, that creates a situation that makes you tingle, and that, in my opinion, is what makes prayer believeable.
You know, when you think about it, it’s funny: we’ve managed to take the effects of something so spiritual and convince ourselves that they are only practical. Yeah, we’ve agreed, God won’t give you that raise or prevent you from getting laid off or cure your chronic illness. But whether he exists or not, believing that he does, even if we are indeed alone in the universe and every time you get down on your knees no one’s hearing you but yourself, can effectively (and falsely) convince yourself of your strength through adversity.
Well, I’ve relied on a belief in God before. I remember one time I had to deliver a budget proposal in front of my department, and I knew my plan was very controversial and that my colleagues were bound to hate it. But I bravely told myself, “you’ve got God on your side,” and, at the moment, it made me felt better.
Well, delivering my proposal turned out to be a mistake, because it was voted against 13-6, so my plan never got around. And people lost trust in me to plan finances. But in those few seconds after I had made my resolve, I can honestly say that I had felt slightly better than before.
You know, when you think about it, it’s funny: we’ve managed to take the effects of something so spiritual and convince ourselves that they are only practical. Yeah, we’ve agreed, God won’t give you that raise or prevent you from getting laid off or cure your chronic illness. But whether he exists or not, believing that he does, even if we are indeed alone in the universe and every time you get down on your knees no one’s hearing you but yourself, can effectively (and falsely) convince yourself of your strength through adversity.
Well, I’ve relied on a belief in God before. I remember one time at my company, I was asked to help draft a budget plan for next year, and I had to deliver the proposal in front of my department, and I knew my plan was very controversial and that my colleagues were bound to hate it. But I bravely told myself, “you’ve got God on your side,” and, at the moment, it made me felt better.
Well, delivering my proposal turned out to be a mistake, because it was voted against 13-6, so my plan never got around. And people lost trust in me to plan finances. But in those few seconds after I had made my resolve, I can honestly say that I had felt slightly better than before.
Meditation is listening to God, prayer is talking to God. You must use both if communication is to take place. If you meditate properly you will know that God is there and loves you.
Love
Leroy
Leroy: A sincere question. I’m not trying to be facetious or ‘smart alecky’…Here goes…In your opinion 'Does God love every one on earth equally?" For instance, does He/She love that snotty nose black kid dying of starvation somewhere in Africa as much as He/She loves the plump, blue eyed, Gerber cereal fed baby somewhere in America? Your (or anyone’s) thoughts?
AvidReader
Of course he loves them. Did the fat kid have any more of choice to where he was born then the starving black kid?
teemingONE
Of course he loves them. Did the fat kid have any more of choice to where he was born then the starving black kid?
Do you believe God answers prayers and interferes in Human Affairs?
Of course, He created them every one, and He loves them every one equally.
Anticipating your next question, God does not interfere with human affairs. We have problems here on earth because we create the problems not God. If we loved as God does we would be sure there were no starving children in the world. There has never been a time in the history of the world when there wasn’t enough food and shelter for all. Some hoard, so some starve. God doesn’t interfere with our free will. That would be cheating on His part.
Love
Leroy
I have the same thoughts as the OP (that means the’original poster’, right?). If God is perfect and so on and so forth why will He pay attention to what I say?
The thing is prayer in Christanity is described as ‘communication with God’ and Christanity is always summed up as ‘a relationship with God’. So prayer is basially just talking to God because God has a personal relationship with Christians.
Does it gives Christians assurance? What does it do for a Christian? The same as talking to a close friend or to a father (assuming the father is a good father…) Prayer also helps Christians to remember things about God (For example, the Lord Prayer) and to remember God’s faithfulness and other factets of His character.
Does it mean it works all the time? As Lekatt have said correctly - God does not interfere with human’s free will - He has choosen not to. I think asking ‘whether prayer works’ is somehow missing the point - Take for example, my examinations - I could have prayed the most sincere prayer, but the responsbility for doing well or not lies on me. Likewise, for leechow09’s unfortunate presentation, God is not responsible for the others’ responses (which is because God does not interfere with people’s free will)…or making a bad presentation ‘work’. God is not someone to bargain, to haggle or to appease…or some Force to be used.
Anyway, what’s the point of praying then, if God is not giving people any cookies for doing so? Other than strengthening the relationship between men and God and to admit before God that men are weak and that men need God…nothing else of which I know…and I have to admit I don’t know much too. Other answers which I have heard concerning ‘prayer that doesn’t seem to work’ includes God has good reasons for saying ‘no’ to one’s request.
What good, then, is God for, if He exists? I am still asking myself that question. There are no easy answers for such questions about Christanity. The only one that statisfy me slightly is that God is a Person with a personality, not something static. So He would act differently depending on what is for the ‘best’
This thus concludes my lengthly discussion. Keep in mind all my responses are ‘textbook answers’ and I am in no way saying that God must exist. It’s just what Christanity says.
Leroy: My sentiments exactly! I am an Agnostic (maybe Deist is a better word) in search of God. I want so awfully to “find and believe”. But intelligent and logical belief. Which is why I do not believe in organized religion.
Be well, do good work and keep in touch…E.
AvidReader ~
I don’t believe in ‘oganized religion’, either, if by ‘organized religion’ meant “Okay, I am closer to the Divine than you ever are and becuase of this you are do this and do that on a regular basis and just follow this little set of rules I create for you and everything will be all right. Don’t ask too much questions ~ have faith! Just have faith!”
Don’t discount prayer, because thoughts are very important. Pray for the very best to happen and give thanks for the good things in your life. Pray for peace, love and compassion in this world. Your prayers are heard and are part of the creation process. We create our world with thoughts and well as actions. Nothing happens without thinking about it, let your thoughts and prayers be positive and full of love for everyone.
Love
Leroy
He that seeks will find, God Bless you.
Yesterday I heard the news about the tragic transplant horror that Jesica Santillan found herself in. After waiting three years to get a donor match, the ecstacy of the news of the operation was suddenly transformed into the nightmare of imminent death due to a “clerical error”. ABC news held out little hope, only three days were left for Jesica.
I was extremely moved by her predicament, andf last night I urged God to intervene. I urged for compatible organs to be made available in time. I’m sure that there were many more people who prayed for her as well. I’m happy to report that in less than twelve hours my prayers were answered, and I now pray for her full recovery. 
Speaking as an atheist and skeptic (oh, hi lekatt) I don’t pray. On the other hand, I do understand that praying makes people feel good and gives them a feeling of connection. I suspect it can also be a useful meditation form. If people want to pray that’s their business and I say go for it, as long as they don’t disturb others. I don’t think people should rely on prayer to the exclusion of any “humanistic” alternative, such as medicine. I also don’t believe prayer can help plants grow, any more than talking to them.
For the record, I personally don’t consider anything on the nde website to be valid or of value. That’s my opinion lekatt. I suspect I’m not alone.