acupuncture and weight loss

Factual Questions
1

I’m trying to research information on the effects of acupuncture on weight loss/metabolism, but have come up mostly empty. (Not even acupuncture.org has what I’m looking for, bleh.) I’m looking for studies, but I’ll settle for a body of anecdotal evidence.

I have found information pertaining to the “ear staple” and how it reduces cravings, so I’m not looking for that – I’m looking for stuff to explain how acupuncture can help weight loss beyond cravings (if indeed it can). Does it boost a low/stalled metabolism? Stuff like that.

Online cites preferred… I doubt I’ll have time to make it to a library in the next week.

Thanks.

2

I’m almost sure we addressed this just a few weeks ago, but a search turned up squat.

In any case, here’s Quackwatch’s take on acupuncture:

[quote]
The conditions claimed to respond to acupuncture include chronic pain, acute injury-related pain, gastrointestinal problems, cardiovascular conditions, genitourinary problems, muscle and nerve conditions, and behavioral problems (overeating, drug dependence, smoking). However, the evidence supporting these claims consists mostly of practitioners’ observations and poorly designed studies.

[snip]

Improperly performed acupuncture can cause fainting, local hematoma (due to bleeding from a punctured blood vessel), pneumothorax (punctured lung), convulsions, local infections, hepatitis B (from unsterile needles), bacterial endocarditis, contact dermatitis, and nerve damage. The herbs used by acupuncture practitioners are not regulated for safety, potency, or effectiveness. There is also risk that an acupuncturist whose approach to diagnosis is not based on scientific concepts will fail to diagnose a dangerous condition.

[snip]

The National Council Against Health Fraud has concluded:
[ul][li]Acupuncture is an unproven modality of treatment. [/li][li]Its theory and practice are based on primitive and fanciful concepts of health and disease that bear no relationship to present scientific knowledge [/li][li]Research during the past 20 years has not demonstrated that acupuncture is effective against any disease. [/li][li]Perceived effects of acupuncture are probably due to a combination of expectation, suggestion, counter-irritation, conditioning, and other psychologic mechanisms. [/li][li]The use of acupuncture should be restricted to appropriate research settings, [/li][li]Insurance companies should not be required by law to cover acupuncture treatment, [/li][li]Licensure of lay acupuncturists should be phased out. [/li][li]Consumers who wish to try acupuncture should discuss their situation with a knowledgeable physician who has no commercial interest. [/ul][/li][/quote]

3

Argh.

Okay, I am aware that Western medicine looks down its nose at Eastern techniques.

What I’m interested in finding are reports/studies/etc. from practitioners of Eastern techniques, or anyone who works with them, explaining if and how acupuncture is supposed to help with weight loss.

If their explanation sounds like BS, then I will discard the idea. But not without researching it first.

4

You are asking the practitioners to justify their practice? I don’t see how that can be productive. Just because there’s a logical explanation for something doesn’t mean it’s true. We see it in science all the time - any data, true or false, can be explained by constructing an appropriate theory. You don’t judge the validity of your data based on how well you can explain it. Similarly, you shouldn’t judge medical practices based on how well they can justify it - it should be based on results which are tested under controlled situations. Tests like the one Kamandi quoted.

5

While I didn’t use acupuncture for weight loss, I did try it to quit smoking. Bottom line? It worked for me, although it is something you need to commit to. For a long time, depending on the severity of your “ailment”. I went from two packs a day to maybe 3 cigarettes a week. But I went for treatments twice a week for a year. Personally, I’ve heard it works for some and not others; perhaps the subconscious has its hand in the deck. One word of advice… when he sticks them pins in your shins… be very prepared.

6

So can we skip the bashing and just answer the question? I’m looking for information on acupuncture as it pertains to weight loss – if it has an effect, and how. Does it exist?

7

You might try finding a copy of The Body Electric by Robert O. Becker. It’s a well-documented book covering his research into “the current of injury” and it does have some possible theories as to how accupuncture might work. I’ve seen pieces on CNN which seem to back up some of the claims that Becker makes (notibly Duke University’s work with wiener dogs with spinal injuries). Some of the results of his studies were published in JAMA, so there is some validity to his work.

8

Kaio, it appears to me that you’re not looking for an objective response to your question, you’re looking for confirmation that acupuncture works. If you’re not interested in what our evil, closed-minded, money-grubbing science-based western medicine has to say about acupuncture, then you might as well start sticking pins in yourself right now. It’s guaranteed to make you feel better. Just make sure your stars are in the right house and your aura and feng-shui are in alignment first.

I’m sorry, but as my link said, according to the best scientific evidence that we have to date, acupuncture basically doesn’t work and it can be dangerous. That’s not bashing, that’s the truth.

9

No, I’m looking for the other side of the story.

As I said, I’m already aware of what Western medicine thinks of Traditional Chinese Medicine. I have that side of the story.

See, I have this weird personality quirk where I like to take a look at all sides of an argument/situation/whatever before making a judgement. Call me crazy. But sometimes I’ve actually found it useful. Amazing, ain’t it?

If you have nothing constructive to add, and do not have the information I’ve been repeatedly asking for, I suggest you go away, as I can’t for the life of me figure out what you’re getting out of this conversation and why you’re still here.

And btw, the ad hominem attacks, I believe, are supposed to be over there points in that place called the Pit.

10

Just doing my best to educate the ignorant, my friend.

You claim you’re looking for

Here ya go:

Only the abstract is provided. No link to a report, no discussion of any experiments or methods used to back up this conclusion. You’d think if the results were real, you’d see this report in the Journal of the American Medical Association or The Lancet or maybe even Science. But of course, those are biased western publications.

You have that already. Acupuncturists can cure practically all ills by sticking pins in your meridians to smooth out the flow of your qi. You want help with a weight problem? Acupuncture can help you.

From a company that offers acupuncture:

Man, that sounds perfect! But is it true? No evidence is provided to back up these claims.
From a Dr Lois Nightingale:

Wow! 5 million French people can’t be wrong! And research has definitely shown that it works. Unfortunately, Dr Nightingale doesn’t say what that research was, and no link to a report is provided.
But you don’t even have to pay somebody to stab you with needles. You can just buy a wristwatch!

Wear it while you’re jogging and watch the pounds melt away!

11

That’s funny, because it sounds an awful lot like you’re condescending to people who disagree with you.

As I said, I’ve already gone through acupuncture.com, so I have that one. I’ve also found some stuff from www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov (the National Library of Medicine for NIH), so it’s not necessary to point me there either.

The others are useless. I think this is the 5th time I’ve said this, but I’m looking for something substantive.

ONCE AGAIN… if you’re not going to make a serious effort to answer my question, GO AWAY. Go feed your superiority complex elsewhere. Sheesh.

12

Now, now - no personal attacks in GQ.

You’re not disagreeing with me, you’re disagreeing with the facts. I don’t think highly of people who ignore the evidence in their pursuit of ignorance.
Look, I was perfectly polite in my first response to you. Your OP stated that you were looking for information on the effectiveness of acupucture on weight loss. I provided a serious response to your query, from a well respected source.

You’re the one who copped an attitude when you said:

Indicating to me that you’re not interested in an honest answer to your question. You’re not “looking for something substantive”, because I already provided that. You want to be told that acupuncture works. Okay, I provided that too. It’s not my fault that there’s no substance to their claims.

Unfortunately, the only evidence-based, systematic method of testing medical claims that exists concludes that acupuncture does not work. This is not a conspiracy of Western doctors to keep the wonders of ancient Eastern techniques away from their patients. Anyone, including the practitioners of those techniques, can execute a properly blinded clinical study. The methods aren’t secret, or difficult. Acupuncturists bilk the public for untold millions every year, so they have the money to conduct these studies. Why don’t they do it? Prove the Westerners wrong!
If you’ve been here any amount of time, you’d have noticed that we don’t suffer fools gladly in GQ. This is the place for factual answers to questions. If you want to read a bunch of bullshit about how “acupuncture worked for me!”, go somewhere else.

13

Which, I might point out, you haven’t been giving me.

You have not in any way answered the meat of my question. You’ve answered the inverse of it, assuming that there was no real need to research a topic thoroughly from all angles before spouting conclusions.

You’ve thrown me a bunch of stuff that says acupuncture doesn’t work. Well, great, but I’ve seen that already, which I’ve repeatedly stated, and my question in actuality was asking if information from the other side exists.

Now if you’d said, “I don’t know of any,” or “I’ve searched and can’t find any either,” that would be a legitimate, and (gasp) respectful answer to my question.

But stating that Western sources are the ONLY sources out there 1> is clearly false, as even you’ve come up with a record of at least one study done by practitioners, and 2> still doesn’t answer my question. I know the veracity of acupuncture is disputed. I’m not arguing or questioning that. What I’m asking for (YET again) is: are there any claims/studies/whatever that acupuncture affects WEIGHT LOSS.

I’ve heard claims about pain relief and that sort of thing. Hell, I’ve had good friends of mine, who also happened to be med students, swear by acupuncture for chronic pain. Yes, again, I am aware that acupuncture is a disputed practice. But that wasn’t my question.

I give up. If you people are only interested in blowing smoke instead of answering my actual question, I don’t see the point of banging my head against the wall. I’ve rephrased the same question a dozen times and still no one has bothered to answer it, which leads me to believe that this isn’t the result of miscommunication, but a willful desire to “prove me wrong” rather than give me information, which, I so “foolishly” thought, was the point of GQ.

The NIH sources should be enough. How amazing that no one seemed to find them before I did…

14

What, you think mine is the only point of view allowed at the SDMB? That should be the case, but it ain’t.

Anyone can post a response to your question, bucko, including supporters and practitioners of acupuncture. The fact that nobody can give you a satisfactory response should tell you more about you than about us.

Grow up.

15

All right. All right. Break it up, folks.

The Straight Dope is all about fighting ignorance. And this forum is all about getting factual answers to General Questions. The first reply by Kamandi in this thread answered the OP citing studies that show acupuncture is not effective. (Thanks, Kamandi.)

If you want to bitch about western medicine’s attitude toward procedures that have been proven to be ineffective, take it to the Pit.

If you want to debate western medicine’s protocols for determining effectiveness, try Great Debates. <Heh heh>

Enough of this in GQ. This is closed.
DrMatrix – General Questions Moderator

One should have an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out.