In a thread of the ICE lawsuit about the Dreamers that was dismissed in the courts, adaher did wilfully ignore how racist and nativist groups were funding and pushing that lawsuit along.
I can say that it is true that not all conservatives and republicans are racists but it is really, really ugly how people like adaher dismiss evidence that shows how misguided is the support that many conservatives are offering to many celebrated lawsuits or new laws that are driving the Republicans nowadays.
I think that racism is a form of extreme ignorance, and unfortunately many like adaher do not care much about who is pushing for lawsuits or laws full of prejudice as long as the result is to stop any progressive moves.
He has shown his proper RW colors. I have seen all these false equivalencies get thrown around (e.g., Alan Bakke, to go way back) and have come to the conclusion that RW-types simply cannot understand the concept of racism. Perhaps there is some sort of double standard or something, though it does not seem like it to me at least in the context of addressing the problem(s). Ultimately, I guess we need to find a way to reframe the discussion in a way that makes the RWers understand why we need to do the things we need to do the way we need to do them.
But, really, racism is like alcoholism. Those people are simply defective and need some kind of therapy. adaher is not a bad person, it is not his fault, he is just fucked up and needs help.
That sounds a lot like a drunk enabler. adaher and many like him are IMHO enablers of the ones pushing for prejudice.
Unfortunately there is no 12 step program for that condition.*
(Actually I have found some examples and books that claim that such programs do exist for racists but, I do know that AA and programs like that are not as good as they claim to be.)
On Edit: and I really did not see that eschereal post before I posted this one.
I’ll post my response in both threads, plus some special additional commentary for Ann:
THe original Civil Rights Act infringed on freedom of association. It did so in order to balance the rights of African-Americans to participate in American life with the rights of people to associate with who they want to and avoid those they don’t want to. The Civil Rights Act carved out some exceptions to freedom of association having to do with government, business, and housing, while leaving other spheres for people to continue to be racist if they wanted to, such as in personal relationships. I think we all agree that any law requiring you to consider dating a person of another race or else get sued for racism would violate fundamental freedoms unacceptably. For areas not covered by the law, we just say “You’re a racist!” and use our own freedom of association to choose not to associate with them rather than bring down the weight of the government on such people.
To put it in legal terms, freedom of association, like any 1st amendment freedom, can only be infringed if the government has a compelling interest at stake. Such as allowing African-Americans full particpation in the economic life of the country.
Ann, you compounded your original mistake by starting a pit thread. You were ignorant of what freedom of association was, you were ignorant about compelling interests are, and you rushed to judgment in a way very similar to how racists do: “anyone who defends X in some way must love X!” I was defending the right to be racist as a purely legal matter, just as other posters have defended flag burning, pornography, blasphemy, etc.
As for the other posters in this thread, accusations of racism are such a loaded issue that chastising me for my other shortcomings as a poster are simply not appropriate. The proper way to handle this thread is to simply explain to this simpleton that I’m not a racist and that such a charge shouldn’t be thrown around so ignorantly.
Oh, and next time you see 50 posters not call me a racist for an argument I’m making and wonder why it “slipped under their radar”, you should come to the logical conclusion that you’re mistaken.
Not really, it just means 50 posters can barely muster the effort to give a wet leaping shit about you. And after your persistent, fetid farting on the SRIotD thread, it seems likely that half those posters either have you on Ignore or habitually skim over or past your posts.
You lose me here. The principle is that if you’re in business to serve the public you must serve all the public. Refusing to serve part of the public is not freedom of association.
You still haven’t made a convincing case for this statement. Your claim takes it for granted that the principle of freedom of association should apply equally to people’s private lives and to public/commercial transactions or community activities.
But I’m not sure I buy it. I’m all about the inalienable right to freedom of association in one’s personal life: e.g., if you don’t want to invite people of other races or orientations to your home for your private parties, or if you don’t want to join a club that allows them in, then the government shouldn’t try to make you.
But when it comes to public commercial establishments or paid services or community institutions like schools or government institutions, I don’t think individuals are entitled to expect the same individual associational rights that they have in their private lives.
And yeah, when people are insisting that their right to freedom of association ought to be considered paramount in every aspect of life, and that antidiscrimination laws are intolerable except for a few grudging exceptions where, like, an entire 15% of the population is turned into second-class citizens by racial segregation, I’m not surprised to find out that those people are racists.
As in, guided mainly by self-investment in being correct. Starving Artist supported Joe Paterno, so he went all-in on that, and we know where that led. adaher is… well, he’s on about whatever the fuck he’s on about now - trying to follow his logical thinking process is like eating Jell-O with chopsticks - but he’s just trying to be right. Go team! and all. Neither is a bad guy, I think, but when you’ve sabotaged your critical thinking skills like that, well, it can lead to some weird and twisted places.
