What exactly is common practice? Again, I understand that renters pay property taxes indirectly, but is the CTJ crediting all property taxes to the renter, even in cases where there is a government subsidy? What is CTJ’s methodology, because all they say is that, “state and local property taxes affect everyone who owns or
rents a home (the tax is passed on to renters in the form of higher rents).” I know it affects everyone, I am wondering how they are accounting for that.
And we would all be subsistence farmers (and I’m pretty sure I would have starved to death years ago or be someone’s slave).
Using CTJ’s $25,000 for the bottom 40%, I find from the IRS tax stat site that that equates to $700 billion (I didn’t include returns with no adjusted since that figure is -$199 billion). From here I get $130 billion in housing and food/nutrition assistance and $154 billion in other (who knows, but we know it’s not SSA, unemployment, retirement, etc…, since they have their own line items). This results in upping the income by somewhere between 19% and 40%. And this does not include state aid.
I find it misleading (especially since I was uber-conservative with my assistance numbers).
Right because the market prices everything perfectly all the time. Which is why American CEOs are worth so much more than CEOs from other countries. They’re just worth more.
You asked for it!
I take it from that that they are calculating the property taxes on the rental units and crediting the renters with paying them. It seems to me that this is the most useful way to go about it. It seems to me that the most useful way to calculate subsidies is as income for the renters, as MemoryLeak has done.
I don’t see how you are reaching the seven hundred billion figure. Could you perhaps go over that a bit more slowly? But if you don’t want to get into it further I understand. I believe you do have a point here. Direct subsidies should be counted and are not. To some extent or another (and not by an insignificant amount) the CTJ chart is overestimating the % of income paid in taxes by the first and second quintiles.
I’ll make sure to note that whenever I use the chart to point out that the superrich are paying about the same percentage in taxes as the middle class.
But it appears CTJ is playing fast and loose with all the numbers. For example, when you go to the IRS statistics site, it’s pretty easy to find that the total income tax as a percent of AGI is about 24% for $200k-$500k, rises to 29-30% for incomes above that until you get to $10,000,000 at which point it drops to 26%. So for the high incomes, CTJ is off by as much as a factor of 2. I don’t see why I would have any more confidence in what they’re throwing out for state numbers.
When we tax plan, our rule of thumb is 40% to somebody (federal and whatever states we’re operating in). And that doesn’t include any of the tax we pay on behalf of others (the biggest being the employer side of FICA, which I’ll bet CTJ wants to credit to the employees and I’m viewing as a straight-up expense).
That is wonderful to see, I think one of the richest men in the US was recently arrested for committing fraud which is great to see (the rule of law is awesome when applied properly). However you also have stories like this, which compare the treatment of the two groups.
Or issues like this where the federal government is trying to reach an agreement with state attorney generals to not pursue or prosecute crimes by the financial sector.
So, you are or are not moving the goalpost?
I’m not even sure what point you’re trying to make with your first cite, but I don’t see how your second cite is any different from a run-of-the-mill plea deal that is SOP at levels of policing. And your characterization of what is happening is deceptive, as it implies that no criminal action is being taken when the feds just want to be the ones doing it instead of the states.
Jesus! I think anyone who wants to make any comment about the Occupy movement should be required to read this.
I’ve heard the “30 tons of trash” meme floated about before, by folks who want to paint the occupy movement as a bunch of dirty hippies. It’s interesting to note that much of this “trash” was the result of the LAPD destroying people’s property and throwing it around.
On edit: I see that even after reading about the horrific treatment of non-violent protesters, some will continue to hand wave it away.
Speaking on behalf of the OWS movement is uncertain at best, but I would hazard a guess that, by and large, they are less upset about particular fraudsters being slammed up at Club Fed than they are with non-carnal persons, persons not embodied in the traditional form of meat. Corporations are persons, we are assured, a miracle that makes transubstantiation look like chicken feed.
Recent reports of frollicking shenanigans with mortgage documentation, for example. Is that breaking the law? Most likely. But how do you bust Bank America, or CitiGroup?
…the scence is Cellblock AAA, Debt Row. A mournful harmonica weeps in the background as the far door opens and the Objectivist priest and the turnkey walk slowly down the row of cells, and then stop…
“CitiGroup? It’s time. No call from the President, so…”
No miracles needed. “Person” is simply a term of art. It’s quite possible that the computer you are using to type your snark on would not exist without the concept of a corporation. Or did you build it yourself with parts made from non-corporate entities?
It seems to me I’ve gone as far as I can here. While I think I’m following what you are saying I just don’t have the expertise to evaluate it. Perhaps in a while I’ll start a new thread specifically on this that might draw in more knowledgeable people with differing viewpoints.
Don’t lower yourself to my level, John, its beneath you. And worse, you’re not any good at it.
Now, since we are done with that…
Back to your post pointing out the jail time corporadoes have received. Clearly, this is offered as a rebuttal point, but to what, perzackly? Is your point that justice is served fairly and equally to all before the law? Or is it simply that you wish to apprise us pointy-heads that, no, corporadoes are not wholly free from the vexations of the law, because look! some guys actually went to prison!
Or what?
Upstanding citizen that you are, you may not know that prison isn’t necessarily prison. White collar criminals, by and large, don’t go to prison such as is commonly thought of. Its a gated community with far stricter security than they may be used to. Like a summer camp where you can’t just go home, even if your write your Mom. “Club Fed”. to use the parlance. I mean, just try to get a decent white sauce!
Be that as it may, if your point is that the law falls with equal weight on the wealthy, that would take a lot more work. Life is short, and you have better things to do.
Ha. Don’t flatter yourself, amigo.
I quoted the exact point I was rebutting.
That was not my point. I made my point in the post. No need to speculate beyond what was written.