It’s happening the way Dennis Leary predicted it would, ladies and gentlemen… “What’s the law now? You can smoke in your apartment, under a blanket, with all the lights out?!?” he said. And it’s happening, too.
The gist of the article is a listing of naughty no-no’s that second-hand smoke, and an explanation on why smoking is the worst sin since murder. It’s also got a small tidbit of tobacco company demonizing.
I’m personally mixed on this. The idea of smoker’s rights vs. second-hand smoker’s rights…
Are you allowed to make fires in public places and make smoke that way? Smoking should be handled like any other small fire and the smoke it causes. Really I don’t see why smoking should be permitted, excepting health reasons.
(9 months on June 9, and doin’ GREAT - i’m done, never again) Also a Californian, you know, the promised land of non-smokers everywhere.
Anyway, I’ve been on both sides of the fence.
And I think that smoking should be banned in all enclosed areas, except for bars, which should be the call of the owner of the bar. Alcohol and cigarettes are a natural pair.
Smoking should be permitted outside. It is ridiculous to think that me passing through a crowd of smokers on my way inside the restaurant is going to harm me. It may gross me out (and it does) but it’s not doing me any harm. And as a former smoker, I know that as long as people are addicted, it is unnecessarily harsh to deny them any space at all in which to smoke. I also think that the restaurant should be allowed to offer an outdoor smoking section if they like.
My .02
(which is the same two cents I had before I quit, by the way)
I’ve smoked since I was 13 years old. I enjoy it. I enjoy the taste, I enjoy the feel of a cigarette in my hand, and yes, I even think it looks damn cool. Is it harmful? Yes. To people other than the smoker? Well, the jury’s still out on that. Certainly not in the small increments your average non-smoking citizen receives on occasion through secondhand.
I agree with Stoid. In most enclosed public areas, smoking is banned, and that’s as it should be. Just in case there’s something to all the secondhand smoke stuff. I think in bars it’s reasonable that we be allowed to smoke, since, as he said, alcohol and nicotine go together and it should be expected. Banning it outdoors, though? Come on. Get real. Smokers will rebel en masse. No one’s going to obey that law. You think not? Ha! If you think gun advocates are stubborn, wait’ll you try to pry a cigarette out of a hardcore smoker’s cold, dead hand.
I do. When you start forbidding things that you don’t NEED, you’ll suddenly start seeing a whole lot of your favorite stuff disappear.
“Don’t need TV… it causes violence in children, and there’s nothing but sensationalism on, anyway.” Yoink!
“Cars? Don’t need 'em. We have public transportation for that… and besides, it just causes pollution, which will destroy the planet.” Yoink!
“Hmm… you don’t really need to vote. Only half the eligible population votes, anyway, and besides, you guys always seem to screw up your ballots.” Yoink!
The point is that you can use any good rationalization to take away something that’s not “needed”. A person makes the choice to start smoking… sure, it may be a stupid choice, but when have he began forbidding people to do stupid things?
(Note: When I started with the OP, I made the comparison of “We know that a good chunk of people get killed in car accidents… so why do we allow cars?”, but it got cut when I decided it was rambling too much, and edited it down prior to posting.)
But you can drive a car. The exhaust from a car (while not usually visible or smellable) will kill you in a few minutes if concentrated in an enclosed area. It’s one of the most “popular” methods of suicide.
It’s a bit silly to prohibit outdoor smoking while cars (and trucks and motorcycles and diesel trains…) are still permitted.
To the individuals who think banning smoking in public places is an affront on your rights: you’re wrong. Your inflicting harmful toxins on me and anyone else in that public place is an affront to our rights. You do not have the right to harm someone else. Personally, I don’t care what your method of slow suicide is, just don’t involve me in it. I say this as someone who spent a week in an ICU due to other people’s smoking.
Regarding the smoking in bars: Not only am I glad California passed a law prohibiting that (for the most part), but very many bar and restaurant workers are quite happy that law passed. They’re not any more interested in having their health abused by the selfish among the smoking set. Anyway, some of us who drink don’t smoke and aren’t interested in passive smoking.
I’m OK with California’s ban on indoor smoking in public places(I’ve had the misfortune of visiting states that allow a waitress to come to your table with a butt dangling from her lip). But banning outdoor smoking in public places seems a bit over the top. Especially in LA, where smoke could only improve the air quality.
I’d just like to note that this is a bit of a myth at this point. I’ve lived in Los Angeles for 42 years, and both I and the Air Quality Management District will be glad to tell you that LA air quality has improved enormously over the years. I clearly recall 35 years ago being unable to breath, my eyes burning, during smog alerts. We have virtually no smog alerts to speak of anymore. (Regulation works, my libertarian friends.)
Just wanted to point that out.
Oh, and thanks, Monty. While I’m sorry you have sensitivities that make it dangerous for you to be exposed to smoking, I don’t think that rules and laws should be designed for the comfort of the most sensitive among us. If that were so, the Internet would be a barren wasteland for adults.
I also think that bar and restaurant owners should be able to decide whether they want smoking or not (restaurants outside). If they decide they do, don’t go to their bar.
Right on, Stoid! I can remember as a kid not being able to breathe AT THE BEACH on smoggy days. I mean real pain in my lungs, and a full breath a distant memory. It must have been killing people inland. There’s nothing quite like having to lay down with a wet towel over your face in order to breathe…
Of course, I know that spooje was just kidding.
As an ex-smoker (almost 10 years, but if I smoked just one I would never quit again), I have to say that I like the indoor smoking ban in restaurants, offices, etc. I don’t have an opinion on bars, because I don’t frequent them. I can still remember when “taking a break” at work meant taking my ashtray out of my desk drawer and lighting up right there. It must have driven the non-smokers nuts, but they couldn’t make you stop. What a primitive, nasty society we had up until the nineties! Even fast food joints used to have little metal ashtrays out. I was the kind of smoker who lit up DURING the meal.
I prefer a smokeless location, but I still go to Vegas and inhale dozens of cigarettes second-hand. The fact that I choose to go there, knowing that there is smoking, means that I accept whatever risks I’m taking. No-one in today’s world can claim they don’t have enough information about smoking!
A ban on outdoor smoking is ridiculous and way over the top. Doesn’t mean it won’t happen though. Pretty sad.
Both exhale bad, icky stuff. We think cars are okay because a lot of people use them and they are outside. But smoking is bad even outside for what reason?
Yea, I hate it when the pile of smokers all hang out right by the door so you have to walk a gauntlet of bad smelling crap to get in. But other than that, if you can see the sky, I have no problem with people smoking. Bar owners can do whatever they want, let people vote with cash money.
If people find it fun to kill themselves off and are willing to pay the higher insurance premiums, let them. Outside, where they can clean up after themselves and bother fewer people.
I wonder why we don’t ban drinking outisde the home. All those people drinking in the bars and restaurants are going to have to get in a car at some point and drive home. They have a higher risk of killing someone than I do and they’re damaging their bodies just as much as I am. If you want to drink (doesn’t matter if you get drunk or not… BAC is .08 in most states which I believe is equivilent to 1 beer) stay home so I’m safe on the roads while I’m enjoying my cigarette.
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I’m not trying to deter from the OP but I just think it’s asinine to try to keep people from smoking outside instead of focusing on something like alcohol that alters a persons mind/mood/behavior/and their ability to think clearly.
The company I work for doesn’t allow tobacco of any kind on the premises. That means people can’t smoke outside the building, in the parking lot, or on our walking trails. We have to get in our car and leave the premises if we want to light up. I go out to lunch every day so I can have a cigarette after lunch. I don’t like it but I do it. It’s the company’s choice to have a non-smoking site and that’s their prerogative just like it’s my prerogative to smoke while I’m walking down the streets that my tax dollars paid for!
You say this as though you have some substantial evidence to the contrary…and if you do, I challenge you to produce it, since the worst things I’ve ever heard about pot are that it CAN (not does, by any means) make one a little lethargic and apathetic when smoked excessively. It’s also never a fabulous idea to be inhaling smoke of any kind, but hardly anyone smokes pot the way people habitually smoke cigarettes.
If you really think that pot is so evil, I think you need to start a debate…
Way back in the early 1980s before I realized the Navy was the place to be, I was in the Army and was stationed at Sullivan Kaserne in Manneheim’s Kaefertal. My office was in the basement of a rather old building (I swear the barracks rooms upstairs had graffitti cut into the rafters poking fun at the Kaiser!). Since there wasn’t much in the way of ventilation, the smoke from the smokers didn’t migrate too far. I was the only non-smoker in my section.
Well, I ended up with a collapsed lung and an emergency ride to the military hospital in Heidelberg. The doctor checked on me after the operation and I asked him what I could do to keep that from happening again. He told me to quit smoking. Of course, I told him I didn’t smoke. He showed me the x-rays and explained to me that I had “smoker’s lungs.”
Maybe the doctor, also a non-smoker, was a bit emphatic about it, but I tend to agree with his assertion that had it not been for that smoke, I wouldn’t’ve had to go through that pain.
As for the smokers in my section: they got to see my doctor when they came up to the hopsital to visit me. He explained the same thing to them. Not a one of those guys ever smoked around me again. One of them even tried to quit the nasty habit.
No problem, Stoid. Just 'cause we disagree on some things doesn’t mean I disagree with you on all things.
There’s also the issue of safe working environment.
Let’s amend that to “a barren wasteland for some adults.” There’s a difference, IMHO, between enacting legislation regarding health and telling adults to behave in a responsible manner. In my experience, the adults who have a problem on the internet either (a) behaved irresponsibly, or (b) encountered someone else who behaved irresponsibly.
That would be fine if it didn’t involve the bit about safe working environment for their employees.
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Gotta reiterate the bit about safe working environment.
As a three-time ex-smoker I have to say that I’d like smoking to be subject to the same restrictions as booze. I’d like all intoxicants to be subject to the same legality so we can decriminialize drugs, and lesson the liberalism on tobacco. Just a thought.
Monty - A bar is no less a safe working environment than a coal mine, or a mechanics’ garage, or any other position where the air around you can be dangerous if exposed to it consistently for a long period of time. You know that when you apply for the job. If you want and need the job badly enough, you’ll take it. Does that mean we should close down every job site with hazardous air? Something tells me if we did, there’d be a lot of layoffs in this country.