I have a 3-year-old Compaq Presario 5304. The hard drive is full, only about 25 megabytes are unused! I want to add in a second hard drive that would take a bit more effort to fill (40+ gigs). Is is possible to add the new hard drive as a slave, then go into dos in WIN 98se and do a “Copy C: D:” would that copy all of the master onto the slave drive, then i could jumper the new drive as master and take out the old, full hard drive. Is there a program that can be downloaded that would accomplish this task for me?
You can probably get away using xcopy /E /H /K, but there is a well documented bug (that Microsoft refuses to fix) which could alter the short file name, while keeping the long file name the same. This could cause unexpected problems.
You could use a commercial program to do it, like Power Quest’s Drive Copy.
Your best bet would be to just re-install the operating system on the new drive.
I believe that Western Digital drives come with this option. I swear by them because of their customer service/ tech support. Last time I needed to use them ('bout a year ago) they were exceptional. I once had a drive that needed replacing (a drive that was about four years old at that) and they shipped, at no cost, a brand new drive of similar size (but with much faster technology) within a couple days. Check out their web site for drives, features and the software they provide for the drives. Good luck!
All the major disk makers will include software to copy the contents of the old disk to the new one. Do not use xcopy.
The problem: Most will only copy the original to a new partition of the same size. So if your old disk was 8gig and your new one is 40gig, you get an 8gig partition with your old disk and 32gigs of unused partitionable space.
You need a utility to resize the copied partition to fill up the whole disk. Commercial programs like PQ Partition Magic will do it (Although it failed on my recent 30gig HD upgrade!) There’s the new GNU partition program. But a nice little freebie that might work for you is “Partition Resizer” (or presizer) available on a SIMTEL mirror near you.
Why all the “diskmanager” type programs don’t all do this for you is a mystery.
FtG
all the drives I have bought come with software & instructions on how to copy the old one to the new one…
Whether they work once you do that is usually a gamble.
Back up your data first.
Back up your data first.
Back up your data first.
Here’s why you need to, even for something as easy as adding an additional HDD.
You’re in exactly the same boat I was in before I went through my…um…experience. Read the link and learn from my…um…experience. 
You should also check to make sure your BIOS can handle a 40-gig drive. There’s apparently a 32-gig cut off on some BIOS (like mine :rolleyes: ) If you got a Western Digital, there’s a BIOS extender included that seems to be a good fix for that, but…
Fenris
What are you talking about. xcopy/xcopy32 works perfectly. I have copied drive info from one drive (vastly different drive sizes and partitions) to the other many, many times with the following command sequence. It has never failed and clones the drive perfectly.
Initate DOS windows in safe mode (ie while running windows)
path= c:\windows\command
xcopy32 c:\ d:\ /e /c /f/ h /r /k /y
Type xcopy32? if you want all the switch information
All the info comes over and the drive is perfectly cloned. You may need to have a bootable floppy to apply fdisk’s and make the partion active if the D: drive is to become the C: drive.
It’s easy as pie. Backup critical data before any drive transfer. Assuming you are running Win98 or ME.
1: Make sure your BIOS can handle a 40 gig drive. You may need to update your BIOS verison with the latest BIOS flash for that unit. Compaq’s website will have the file if needed.
2: If yes to 1 attach the drive as a slave to your system (or IDE channel 2 master) and have the BIOS auto recognize it. Reboot with a bootable floppy with fdisk and format on it.
3: Run fdisk and set drive size to maximum. When partitioning is completed reboot system with floppy again. Format drive with
format c: /s
command. Make double sure the drive letter you are formatting is the empty drive.
4: After drive is formatted, Re-start system and start windows. In windows start a DOS window and enter the following commands. These extended command switches will only work while running DOS under windows.
path= c:\windows\command
xcopy32 c:\ d:\ /e /c /f /h /r /k /y
5: After this is finished shut down system and swap drives (or remove as desired) Re-jumper D: drive to be C: or as needed to correspond to their new master-slave assignments. Re-boot system with DOS floppy and using fdisk set partiton on master drive “0” to be active" Reboot.
You’re done. New drive is spinning happily.
xcopy32 switches
/A Copies files with the archive attribute set, doesn't change the attribute.
/M Copies files with the archive attribute set, turns off the archive attribute.
/D:date Copies files changed on or after the specified date. If no date is given, copies only those files whose
source time is newer than the destination time.
/P Prompts you before creating each destination file.
/S Copies directories and subdirectories except empty ones.
/E Copies directories and subdirectories, including empty ones. Same as /S /E. May be used to modify /T.
/W Prompts you to press a key before copying.
/C Continues copying even if errors occur.
/I If destination does not exist and copying more than one file, assumes that destination must be a directory.
/Q Does not display file names while copying.
/F Displays full source and destination file names while copying.
/L Displays files that would be copied.
/H Copies hidden and system files also.
/R Overwrites read-only files.
/T Creates directory structure, but does not copy files. Does not include empty directories or subdirectories. /T /E includes empty directories and subdirectories.
/U Updates the files that already exist in destination.
/K Copies attributes. Normal Xcopy will reset read-only attributes.
/Y Overwrites existing files without prompting.
/-Y Prompts you before overwriting existing files.
/N Copy using the generated short names.
If you’ve got the time/inclination, I highly suggest that instead of just copying all the files over, you reinstall all your software onto the new drive. Especially when it comes to Windows, a lot of useless files build up over time. These come from programs you installed then uninstalled, temporary files that never got deleted, etc. You can free up a significant amount of space by reinstalling everything (obviously copying personal data files over separately) and make the computer run faster, too. It’s just taking out the garbage.
I’ve done this so often, that I’ve got it down to a science. I keep all the disks/CDs I need together, and can do a complete reinstall in about an hour. Because of this, if I start having problems, sometimes I will just reinstall everything instead of trying vainly for hours to fix the problem!
There’s a difference between being lucky and being right.
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xcopy, run in 16-bit mode, does not preserve long file names (but it does preserve 8.3 names). I’ve actually used this to clone disks but augmented it with the utility doslfnbk (also to be found at SIMTEL). But, you have to avoid certain anomalous situations. E.g., files with full path length/name greater than 80 chars are inaccessible under MS-DOS (even in 8.3 format). If you aren’t careful about these situations you don’t get a perfect clone.
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xcopy in 32 bit mode also has it problems. One anomaly is that it preserves long file names but not 8.3 munged names. This is a problem if a startup file is listed in the registry under its short name (when it has to be read before MS-Windows is fully loaded). Your xcopy command will screw this up royal. You can also get share violation problems depending on what is running, possibly in background, that will prevent some files from being copied. Safe mode reduces some of the problems but not necessarily all.
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Neither program will preserve directory time-stamps. This can affect latter incremental backups, file synchronization, etc.
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I (like some possible SDMB readers) use multi-partition systems where adding a new drive makes my D: MS-Windows partition E: and MS-Windows won’t boot until I do some tricks. I don’t want to get into the details of doing this when there are better alternatives to xcopy.
xcopy/xcopy32 is so well known to not work “perfectly” that many people use the advanced utility xxcopy. But even xxcopy admits its limitations in regard some of the above points among others. See it’s documentation page.
Again, xcopy is very dangerous to use for even directory tree copying, let alone disk cloning. Just because it worked for you (so far) doesn’t at all mean it will work for you later or for others. Please stop recommending it. If you want to take risks that’s your business but don’t encourage others.
FtG
1: Xcopy32 used in safe mode (which is the only mode I am talking about) with the switches I have outlined brings over all files in both long and short name formats. It has never failed to properly bring over all long and short filenames perfectly.
2: In well over 100 perfect transfers between different systems using this methods it has never choked on a file name. If you have a cite that indicates it will crash and burn on a “munged” filename in windows safe mode using the switches I have outlined I’d be happy to change my mind.
A share violation has never occurred using this method even with multiple applets running in the background and the /c switch keeps it going past the swapfile copy and copies of other open files. Only windows and the DOS windows are up and no other apps when this transfer is occurring.
3: A point to consider, however, I have not had any backup programs choke on directory timestamp differences since the olden days of QIC tape backups and no one using using any type of modern file synchronization programs has had problem with the cloned disks.
4: I’m only addressing single partition cloning in my description.
You’re right in that there is a difference between being lucky and being right. With over 100+ transfers completed perfectly over ther past several years using this method I suppose it is possible that Lady Luck is beaming down on me. It is also possible that you are incorrect about the relative dangers of xcopy32 under safe mode as I have described it in that you are describing it as damaging files, which I have never observed using the switches I have described and choking on open files which it does not do with the /c switch engaged.
In any case to each his own.
Forget xcopy & use the disk that comes with your HD.
(Note there is a typo in Astro’s xcopy command.)
Absolutely false and easily tested as wrong. Here’s what I did.
I created a directory with the following files (from the dir command):
FOOOOO~1 4 10-07-01 3:39p fooooooo1
FOOOOO~2 5 10-07-01 3:39p fooooooo2
FOOOOO~3 6 10-07-01 3:39p fooooooo3
FOOOOO~6 9 10-07-01 3:42p fooooooo6
FOOOOO~7 10 10-07-01 3:42p fooooooo7
FOOOOO~4 7 10-07-01 3:40p fooooooo4
FOOOOO~5 8 10-07-01 3:40p fooooooo5
I created the first three files, two dummy files, the f4 and f5 files, deleted the dummy files and then created the f6 and f7 files. The last created files take the spot of the deleted dummy files in the directory table.
Note that the munged name for each file goes with the unmunged name.
I then xcopied the files to another directory using Astro’s (typo fixed) command and got this dir listing:
FOOOOO~1 4 10-07-01 3:39p fooooooo1
FOOOOO~2 5 10-07-01 3:39p fooooooo2
FOOOOO~3 6 10-07-01 3:39p fooooooo3
FOOOOO~4 9 10-07-01 3:42p fooooooo6
FOOOOO~5 10 10-07-01 3:42p fooooooo7
FOOOOO~6 7 10-07-01 3:40p fooooooo4
FOOOOO~7 8 10-07-01 3:40p fooooooo5
Note that the munged names no longer match the unmunged names.
This is an extremely well known phenomena. Again, see the xxcopy documentation pages. (Astro really oughta know this.)
If fooooooo7 (FOOOOO~7) is accessed via the registry during boot up, MS-Windows will access fooooooo5 on the copied disk. This is not a good thing.
Besides MS-Windows, some other badly behaving programs also access the munged name rather than the unmunged name. And we can’t get rid of all badly behaving programs without starting with …
So poogas21, try out the above test yourself and then believe who you want. Me or the person that said this couldn’t happen.
FtG
I would never used xcopy to clone a drive. I have run into all sorts of wierd file name problems. It was ok before long file names. Personally, I use ghost.
I know, if its three years old, why not buy a new computer? They come with big HD’s tigerdirect.com has some pretty cheap.
Not too much to add here, just wanted to say that poogas21 and I have the same computer. I have had to upgrade the hell out of this thing, as the “Celeron 300” chip that comes with it only really runs at 233 mhz, and had a hard time running my applications (ok, running newer games). I have added a new cpu, sound card, graphic card, modem, second hard-drive, zip drive and ram. Still cheaper overall than buying a new system, and now I have a system that I love, except my OS (Win 98 SE, I want XP for added stability). The crummy thing is that Compaq no longer supports this system, so you have to find out how to do everything on your own. To add a new drive, I went to the HD manufacturer site (both old and new are same brand), Fujimitsumi (or something like that) to get a diagram of the jumper settings. Then used a free program from the Fujimitsumi site to install new drive. It is actually pretty easy, don’t worry too much about the proper software, and using tables, just make sure you buy another Fujimitsumi (or whatever it is called) drive, (I paid 60 for a 20gb hd). Just an FYI, it is a lot easier to add a larger, second drive, then to add a larger drive as the primary, lot less switching required. If you need specific help doing something FOR THIS COMPUTER MODEL ONLY (compaq presario model 5304, feel free to email me. Good Luck.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ftg *
The problem you speak of per your demonstration is also discussed and referenced here.
http://home.att.net/~navasgrp/tech/clone_copy.htm#heard
You are correct in that this can happen in some situations as described here -
http://www3.sympatico.ca/rhwatson/dos7/z-xcopy.html.
The fact that this confluence of conditions would not crop up very often is obviously why I have had error free transfers to date, however, that this condition can occur is good information and as I said originally, I will be glad to change my mind with evidence of problem. Such evidence has been tendered and thus I would concur with you that there are better solutions than xcopy for drive transfer.
Thank you for the information.