On my other discourse site it is a drop down.
It is easy to create a dropdown selection list, but as mentioned on the Meta thread, the whole point of letting people choose their pronouns is to let people express their gender identity, not the ones the mods think are acceptable. I think that requiring somebody to request specific pronouns is a barrier which discriminates against those who don’t fit neatly into gender categories.
I also think that this board is small enough to allow trolling pronouns to be dealt with on a case by case basis. This ain’t Facebook.
Where this would be very counterproductive is if somebody here prefers ve/ver, for example, and is forced to defend it as a real thing some people use (just because you’ve never heard of it), and that they genuinely feel such neopronouns apply to verself.
Yes, this is one of my biggest counterpoints to creating such a field. This leads to a rabbit whole of branching custom fields:
Why did you leave the pronouns field empty?
- I want to remain gender anonymous
- I couldn’t figure out how to edit my profile
- I think putting in my pronouns is stupid
- I think people who use alternative pronouns are stupid
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voters
One of those reasons is much different than the others, but from just an empty field, I can’t tell them apart.
I’m sure that we would be one troll light about 10 minutes after they did that. Win-win.
Good to know that the capability is there. I haven’t seen that yet, myself.
They shouldn’t have to defend it if that’s what they prefer, but I’m not going to use neopronouns. They’ll get a they.
This seems like it would turn into a minefield of “gotchas” and increase the number of flags tenfold.
I assume that the Pronoun would not flash or appear on the screen as you try to reply.quote or mention a poster? True, deliberately mislabeling could be trolling, but picking “they” is rather neutral .
So a contentious poster picks “they” for example. Then, when anyone they don’t like uses “he” or whatever (because the poster has spoken of being a male in the past) that poster quickly flags the post, hoping to get that person banned. Or a poster with a username that appears genders, picks the opposite gender, and flags those posts.
In other words, before replying or quoting any poster, or even mentioning, we will have to carefully check a posters profile? Ridiculous.
Which would be misgendering and flagged.
Then they’ll just have to ban me.
There should be a board rule that a generic pronoun–like “they”–could always be used regardless of what a person has specified.
Last time I checked “Misgendering another poster, even accidentally, is an immediate ban” is not in the SDMB rules.
I can agree with that up to a point. Personally, I don’t think that anything in our profile fields should carry any “weight of law.” Just because someone has their pronouns listed in their profile doesn’t require anybody else to read their profile.
Now, if somebody said I’m a woman in the discussion, and someone else kept referring to them as he, then that would be a problem.
You would be correct, it is still not a rule.
Bob Vennerbeck here - but almost universally known as Vbob. I happen to be a old white cisdude, but worked for 40 years at an art school where there were probably more genders than people. When adding a mention of one’s pronouns to to email, business cards, etc. became a thing, a lot of my colleagues said that was only for people with ‘non-traditional’ pronouns. I vigorously resisted that notion, and use vi, vim, vis. Am I trying to cause trouble? Well, I prefer to think of it as raising awareness. YMMV
Nor did I say it was. But several warnings in a short period can lead to that.
Is “Misgendering another poster, on purpose" against the rules? Of course then, the whole “is it on purpose or an accident?” makes more work for you Mods.
Will we be expected to check a profile or know what’s in it?
It’s hard to tell my gender (I’m a “he”) from my name or avatar, so I put “Mr. Atama” in my profile. Clearly I’m in favor of including pronouns. Not even for political reasons, or solidarity with people who have non-traditional pronouns (though I guess those too), but just because it’s convenient.
I agree with this. If the point is to allow people to be addressed as they prefer to be addressed (basic politeness), having the mods determine which pronouns are “acceptable” defeats that purpose.
Not knowing is one thing. As is forgetting. People do that all the time.
But you seen to be saying you’d intentionally use the incorrect pronoun even after knowing. That’s a problem, regardless of where the person makes their pronouns known.
There’s nothing about neopronouns that changes the argument for why this is unacceptable. It still indicates a hostility towards the person in question for their chosen gender expression and identity. It still indicates you won’t afford them the basic politeness of referring to someone they way they want to be referred to.
Granted, it’s not always clear that someone is opposed to “they” as their pronoun. And it must remain acceptable to use “they” as I did just then—as a pronoun indicating an unknown gender. But if someone makes it clear that they is a problem, I can see no reason it shouldn’t be treated the same as someone saying “she” or “he” is a problem.
I do not get why you of all people—someone who is very much against bigotry and generally wishes the mods were harsher on punishing it—would draw the line here so strongly. How is what you’re saying different from someone saying they’re willing to be banned for misgendering a trans woman?
It may bug them to have to use the correct pronouns, but we expect them to at least put in the effort to do so. Just like wider society does.
Okay, but in the situation you speculated on, at most the user would get a note. A troll would need a concerted effort across multiple accounts without ANYONE else noticing what’s happening to in order have an action done against the innocent user. It would never happen and the troll would be the one getting banned.
I hang out numerous places on the internet. I never specify my gender or preferred pronouns because I don’t think it’s relevant to 99% of what I discuss and on the rare occasion it is I will state it there. Of course, I also don’t wig out if someone guesses wrong.
I can confidently state that I have never felt pressure to declare my gender, nor have I ever felt stigmatized for not doing so. Pretty sure I’m usually regarded as a LGBTQ+ ally.
So… thank you for your concern but, at least for me, it’s been a total non-problem.
I can’t say I understand the protest. If the issue is that people insist you shouldn’t indicate a standard pronoun, surely the way to protest would be to do it anyways, not misstate your own preference. Surely people who knew you would still use “he/him,” and that would make it seem like it’s okay to use incorrect pronouns for someone who legitimately did have a different pronoun.
But, regardless of the rationale of said protest above, I don’t see why that would need to apply here. The thing you would be protesting would not be present here. You can’t protest what doesn’t exist.
So I would not consider this a valid concern.
You seem to be saying that for 99% of posts, gender is entirely irrelevant to you. I completely agree with that. So why add it for the 1% where it may be somewhat relevant? What is the problem we’re trying to solve here?
That’s my personal feeling. It may or may not apply to other people. I am speaking only for myself here, not anyone else.
I don’t see it as a problem to solve. However, it does seem to be an issue for some other people these days and I acknowledge that even if I do not share their concerns or experiences.