I notice in the picture of them that I’ve linked to that these two women are proud to look their ages. I say bravo, and may we women do likewise.
They were complex, creative, productive women, and their self-worth did not depend on the shallow basis of how old they looked. They truly had beauty that only comes with age and wisdom.
How many times have I seen the media gushing over how “young and beautiful” some elder model or actress appears. As if they would have no value if they looked over thirty-five.
I say if there is a deity, may that diety rain blessings upon them in the hereafter where looks come last for women’s spirits.
Ages be damned, they were both beautiful women. Yes: complex, creative, smart, funny, poised and with wisdom tempered by experience… but also just wonderful to behold.
Okay, behold them. But my point is both Debbie and Carrie look their ages. No, not ages be damned. They look natural, and you can tell they are older women.
They are not part of the zeitgeist that all of woman’s worth lies in her stereotypical beauty ideal. Unlike, say, Christie Brinkley or Raquel Welch and others, who are apparently some sort of androids.
Women should not be judged on whether they are wank-worthy or not. :mad:
And my point was also that their ages did not matter; they were beautiful women.
I also do not think that their worth was solely or even largely tied to their appearance, but I won’t deny that I found both of them wonderful to look at. I agree that they looked their ages, and I also think that they looked fantastic. Not “fantastic despite their ages” and not “fantastic because of their ages”, just “fantastic”; their age was irrelevant to the fact that they looked fantastic.
Debbie Reynolds played John Goodman’s demented just-released-from-a-psych-ward mother on an episode of Roseanne in 1997, when she was 65. Roseanne said that she and other cast members did a double take when she walked in with gray hair and wrinkles and looking anything other than glamorous- they were expecting the Debbie from talk shows- but Debbie said “She’s just gotten out of a psych ward, she’s not going to look like she’s had a makeover! Let’s play her this way!”
I always thought that said a lot about her professionalism.
The original script also called for her to be cuckoo for cocoa puffs and mean to Dan (Goodman’s character) when others weren’t watching but sweet when they were. It was Debbie’s idea to up that: “She blames him for her being in a psych ward- she shouldn’t just be mean to him, she wants to kill him!”, and the script was rewritten to include this. (Got a lot of flack at the time from mental health groups, but as a black-comedy it worked beautifully.)
I always thought that said a lot about her sense of humor.
I loved Debbie Reynolds as Bobbie Adler, Grace’s mother on Will & Grace. I especially loved her “I told ya so!” dancedone with the Bob Fosse jazz hands–
"I told ya so!
"I told ya so!
“I told ya, told ya, told ya so!”
Not only were Debbie Reynolds and Carrie Fisher beautiful, but have you seen Lourd Fisher, Carrie’s daughter and Debbie’s granddaughter? She’s another beauty.
This is the very first thing that came to mind when I heard the sad news. I even did the little hand movements as I sang it (luckily no one was around but my cat, who has seen much much worse).
Hah! Even even at 65 and with grey hair Debbie Reynolds was still really cute!
But on to another point from upthread. Why is it that those who get offended by male appreciation of female beauty automatically leap to the conclusion that this is the only way women are valued by men? A woman can be hot and still be smart, or kind, or a hard worker, or a great mother, a successful career woman, or any number of other positive things. In other words, while men may be quick to comment on a woman’s looks, that doesn’t mean this is the only way we value them.
At the beginning of this post I commented on how cute Debbie Reynolds still was at the age of 65, but in my mind also were images of her noble character…of how she’d maintained her composure when Eddie Fisher left her for Elizabeth Taylor; how she’d worked her butt off for years to pay off the millions in debt her husband Harry Karl incurred through gambling; how she’d successfully developed a career as a cabaret-style performer after her movie days were behind her, how she’d owned and managed a hotel in Las Vegas, and many other things. So even though I was initially struck by how cute she still was at the age of 65, that was only one aspect of a woman about whom I knew and admired a great deal more.
And then when it comes to random admiration of an attractive woman we know nothing else about, their looks may be what strike us and get commented on, but we’re still aware they have a whole life going on in which any number of positive or negative qualities might exist.
So it’s a mistake to assume that just because men might comment on a woman’s looks that this is the only characteristic or value men think they possess.
And it is also a mistake that women must base their self-worth on how they appeal to men, how useful they are to men, or how they are admired by men, whether by their appearance or their character. It is a mistake women make all the time. And society reinforces that.
Women should judge themselves entirely independently of men’s opinions. Or other women’s come to that.
Judging by her work on Scream Queens (all I’ve ever seen her in other than a blink an you miss it cameo in Ep7), while she’s good looking, she’s also got a hell of a resting bitch face going on too.
This is the very first thing that came to mind when I heard the sad news. I even did the little hand movements as I sang it (luckily no one was around but my cat, who has seen much much worse).