What I mean is, rape is the only crime that I have to fight to prove I did not consent to - if I am beaten, it would be pretty odd for anyone to say “Really, Poysyn, are you sure you did not just join some crazy fight club thing?”
But if I am raped, I have to prove that no, I did not want that person inside of me.
Victims of crime are (generally) given the benefit of the doubt that the crime happened. Except with sexual assault. Which sucks.
At the end of the day, the ideal solution is if people let the investigation do it’s job, but support the person victimized at the same time.
At least fifteen other women have accused Trump of sexual assault.
Trump has said, on record, that he sexually assaults women.
When asked about Carroll, Trump claimed he had never met her. Photos show them together. This establishes that Trump is lying about Carroll.
Two other witnesses have corroborated that Carroll made this accusation back in 1996. (No doubt as part of a long-planned liberal plot to discredit Trump in case he changed parties, became a Republican, ran for President, and got elected twenty years later.)
You can, of course, deny that any of this is evidence about Trump’s credibility. Go ahead and do so. And when you do, make sure you repeat that part about how some people just blindly follow their chosen leaders.
It’s interesting that so many people demand conviction-level proof that a woman was raped in order to believe her, when they don’t do this with victims of other crimes. Your colleague, Lenny, tells you someone stole his brand-new flat screen. Do you say, “Lenny, prove to me it was stolen, or I won’t believe you”? Of course not.
You might say well, but Lenny is credible. I’ve known him a long time. OK. So Lenny tells you someone a couple blocks away was robbed of a $100, do you scoff and say, “I’ll believe that only when they find the perp and secure a conviction”? No. of course not.
All anyone is asking is that you don’t dismiss the claims of a person who was sexually assaulted. Give them the same level of credibility as you do other victims of other crimes. A small percentage of robbery claims are fake, yet people claiming they were robbed don’t often face the same level of scorn and doubt a rape victim does.
I was going to say those who make the “prove it or I dismiss it” demand must be terribly lucky that no one in their lives was sexually assaulted, but sadly, anyone who’d been assaulted would be unlikely to tell anyone with such an attitude.
I don’t have it both ways. Right now, our society coddles and goes incredibly easy on powerful men accused of rape and sexual assault. Trump has faced zero consequences so far from over a dozen credible accusations. And right now, or society shits all over women who accuse powerful men.
That should change.
No conundrum here. Treat accusations with seriousness; treat accusers with compassion; and I don’t really care how you treat powerful men accused of rape, since in all likelihood they’re going to face no consequences.
Anyone surprised by the complete lack of reaction by officials in the Party of Rape (not sure which sounds better – “Party of Rape” or “Party of Sexual Assault”, but right now I lean towards the former)? I’m not. The Republican party has wholly abandoned any pretense of being on the side of women against rapists, because they’re worried it could damage their political leaders.
Have you read the stories from Terry Crews and Brendan Fraserabout their experiences? I’m not sure how what they went through compares to your experience, but the shame, anxiety and fear around reporting being molested applies even when the victims are big muscular men. And even after they came forward, in the midst of the #MeToo wave, there were those who openly mocked them for the events that traumatized them. The power of the truth may not stop assholes from being assholes, but it helps others who may feel powerless.
She has claimed Trump raped her. She has two people she told at the time who confirm it.
Trump’s only counter evidence is claiming he never met the woman, and saying she’s unattractive. The latter is irrelevant, and we have photographic proof the former is false.
We also have character evidence of a guy who admitted women would let him get away with rape because he was rich, who admitted to going backstage to try and catch the women undressed at his pageants, and who has had several other independent reports of sexual assault.
Simply weighing the evidence we have right now, it seems likely he raped her. That is just looking at things rationally. No incriminations attacking Trump supporters or liberals. No claim that she’s lying when you have no evidence to back that up. Just looking at what we have, right now.
Can any of Trump’s defenders set out a post like this?
Yes, I did. I asked that E. Jean Carroll provide the date on which she claimed it happened instead of a six month time frame.
When she does, given Trump’s wealth and status, it is highly likely Trump can provide his whereabouts that day. If it turns out he was out of town or has another iron clad alibi, will you agree that some rape allegations are false?
What was the exact date you lost your virginity? Month, day, year. Surely you must remember the exact date of something so memorable. If you can’t produce this exact date, then we can only assume that you are currently a virgin. Correct?
There’s no shame in being a virgin. I admire men and women who can demonstrate self control and wait to engage in intimate acts under the bonds of marriage. They can say they share something special. So if I had waited until my honeymoon, yes I could provide that exact date.
I was getting at your insistence that people should remember exact dates this way. That isn’t the way memory works. The fact that you cannot remember the date you first had sex should illustrate to you that your argument doesn’t hold water.
And I love how people on message boards just make stuff up.
I didn’t attack her (nice hyperbole though).
I pointed out that her delaying in reporting of this, didn’t help her case. It doesn’t help in a rape case, or in a larceny case. Waiting over twenty years to come public with this, and then doing it when it would benefit you financially also lessens your credibility. This isn’t an attack. This is pointing out some legitimate issues.
If you view this as an attack, than I think growing a thicker skin is in order.
If we believe Carroll’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her.
If we believe Trump’s account, the conclusion is that Trump probably raped her.
When someone brags about constantly committing sexual assault, and someone else accuses them of committing sexual assault, it’s logical to conclude they did it. Don’t like this? Then don’t brag about constantly committing sexual assault.
And yes, it would be better if victims would come forward right away. Want to make that happen? Stop blaming victims. All you folks who ask “Why did she wait so long?”? The answer is you. You are the reason why she waited so long.
Yep. We have a recording of Trump admitting he sexually assaults women. Why is this, the 20th or so accusation, still so hard to believe when the man himself admitted he does it?
I predict that we will never get the exact date from LAZombie. (And I note that he asserts confidently that he could remember the date if it happened on his honeymoon, which is a tacit admission that people remember dates when they are pre-planned and calendared, as opposed to happening on an otherwise random day).
But the point has been made. People generally don’t remember the dates of very memorable moments in their lives (me? I lost my virginity on a spring break trip with my girlfriend in a motel room. I received oral sex for the first time about a week earlier. I know my senior year was 1996, and spring break was in the spring, but that’s about the best I can do. And getting a BJ and then getting laid my senior year were absolutely the highlights of that time).
Hell, my dog died earlier this year. It is still incredibly traumatic; I carry a lot of guilt, since she died in the middle of the night in the hallway. I can still vividly remember putting my face on her body to listen for a heartbeat, and the coolness of her body still sickens me. I also keep a calendar at work that details my travels (for expense account reasons) - I write down things like anniversaries and birthdays on it - but I didn’t record this event, despite it being something I will carry with me forever; it was too sad to write down. Now, I’m pretty sure it was the end of March - about a month before I visited my mom (which date I remember because I showed up a few days after her birthday) - but I don’t know the date. I don’t want to know the date. But, sure as shit, Ruby did die.
Are you doing a Captain Obvious commercial? I like those😀
That’s not actually logical. Following the same form, if I brag about how I fly to the moon on magical wings every night, and somebody else accuses me of stealing the American flag off the moon, than it is not logical to conclude that I did it.
People say all kinds of shit about what they did or didn’t. Nothing anybody says actually changes what happened in the past.