Advice needed - dealing w/ stuff right on property line with neighbor

In My Humble Opinion
1

THE BACKGROUND:
Right at the edge of our property is an enormous bamboo stand that causes problems when it grows too large - bamboo falls into the culvert next to it and blocks it, which has the potential to cause damaging flooding (it did wash out part of the driveway a few years ago, though repairs on that particular disaster have long since been completed). It also grows into the power lines if it is not cut back occasionally.

There is a parking area next to the bamboo which is useful for one of the tenants. Actually the parking space is technically on the neighbor’s land, but we have an easement to use it. (It would be useless to the neighbor as they have no access even though they own the land.) Of course, bamboo could fall on a car there as well, if it were not maintained.

As the property is mostly rented out, we’re not all that familiar with the details, but a few years ago there was a bit of a tiff between the tenants and the neighbor over the bamboo - to the best of our recollection the neighbor didn’t want the bamboo trimmed, and technically they own most of it. But things got resolved, I guess, and I actually think the neighboring property has changed hands since then. (I will check with our tenants when they return - they are on the mainland until July 4.) As things now stand (heh), the bamboo is cut back slightly from time to time and we pay for it to be done.

We have engaged a landscape architect to oversee extensive and badly needed improvements to the property. He brought in a tree-cutter who wants to severely cut back the bamboo stand. As much as it pains me to remove any of the beautiful flora on our property, I understand the reason for the recommendations on the bamboo. Cutting back a lot would provide a long-term solution instead of the stop-gap “cut a little from time to time” method currently in use.

THE QUESTION
Since technically I don’t think we own most of the bamboo (the property line goes through the stand, with most of it being on the neighbor’s side), it seems problematic for us to remove it: it’s not ours, we don’t (at the moment) have permission, and I also wonder why we should we pay to remove a nuisance/hazard that belongs to our neighbor.

I’ll find out the relevant inter-neighbor history, if any, when our tenants return, and I can certainly find out who the neighbor is and try to open friendly discussions. But when I do this, **what should my goal be - what’s the reasonable outcome here? **I am thinking it is #1 or #2 of the following, and I’d like to avoid or have a solution ready for #3.

  1. In a perfect world, neighbor understands that the bamboo, being mostly theirs, is partly their problem even if it doesn’t bother them, and we jointly pay for a radical cutting back.

  2. In a less perfect but bearable world, neighbor says, “fine, cut the bamboo and I won’t complain, but you want it to be cut, YOU pay for it.”

  3. In a most unfortunate scenario, the neighbor says, “hey, the bamboo is mine, it’s beautiful, and you can’t cut it. Not my problem if you don’t like it.”

If it matters, we’re in the State of Hawaii, county of Hawaii. What do people think we ought to be doing here? Has anyone dealt with a similar type of problem? (I am sure people have because I have vague memories of reading other posters’ experiences here.)

2

We have a similar problem where I live but it is called “trees”. :smiley:

I think your approach (the friendly discussion) is correct. I would recommend inviting them over for dinner and then wait until everyone has had several glasses of wine before bringing it up. Go for a walk with them after dinner. Nonchalantly wander over to the area in question…

  1. I don’t really see them chipping in for the cutting. Maybe, if they are GREAT neighbors but usually not the way it works. They are likely thinking that the problem is yours and me letting you mess with my bamboo is imposition enough.

  2. I think this is a reasonable response. Hopefully you’ll get at least this.

  3. Possible response. The best way to avoid it is making friends with them BEFORE bringing it up. See “wine”.

Factually, they have no obligation beyond the easement. Have you seen the easement on your deed? These things are sometimes just a verbal agreement. All the more reason for making friends.
Good luck.

3

Your primary goal should be to avoid any sort of expensive and stressful pissing contest with the people next door. Establishing a semi-amicable relationship with the neighbours in case an actual major problem crops up is well worth it.

If nothing else its a **very **good idea for them to know you well enough that they can ping you a message if your tenants re-evalute their life choices and start a shelter for meth addicts in your house, or if the place floods when your tenants are on vacation.

Dealing with the bamboo is a secondary thing, IMO. I would be inclined to try to slide it into the discussion by letting them know you will be doing a bunch of landscaping, roughly when, and who is doing it. Ask if they foresee any problems and suggest that if they have been thinking of doing any landscaping it might be worth asking your contractors for a quote to see if they can get a good price since they will already be ‘on site’ so to speak.
That will hopefully lead to a conversation where each of you can find out what the other thinks about the current situation and intends for the future, find out beforehand if anything is likely to cause a violent reaction, and discuss how to solve ‘shared issues’ like things growing on the boundary, drainage on one plot that affects the other, etc.

If you are thinking of building or planting something that will make your neighbour rabid you really want to find that out beforehand so you can either change your plans or get lawyered up before you do it, especially if you are reliant on an easement across their land. Those are prime ammunition in a neighbour feud.

4

Sometimes it’s better to ask for forgiveness than permission.

5

There have been situations where I would have given permission if asked, but when offered an apology after the fact, I told the person that all communications should go through my lawyer.

OP should consider that the neighbor might just be like me.

6

As a lawyer, I wanted to point out these portions of your post. I’m not sure why you describe “technical” ownership. The clear real property rights and any recorded encumbrances is the first - and often last - point controlling the parties’ rights and responsibilities. And terms like “easement” and “nuisance” mean something differently in legal terms than in many discussions.

So in short, and knowing nothing about Hawaii law, generally you can do pretty much whatever you wish regarding plantings on/over your side of the property line, but very little on your neighbor’s side. So you should be pretty free to trim/slash and burn/eradicate the bamboo up to the property line, without needing to ask your neighbor’s permission or even discuss it with them. The only limit is if you took action on your property that was likely to kill the planting on your neighbor’s property. Say if you used some poison on your side which killed the entire stand - including that on your neighbor’s property.

Your situation is different from what we mainlanders generally encounter, where there is a tree right on the property lims, or with branches overhanging the property line. Bamboo is technically a grass - you can mow up to the property line, but have little say over how your neighbor maintains his grass. Might be a difference, if bamboo is considered invasive - a nuisance if you will. I’m not sure how Hawaii treats that.

As with most property disputes, the best approach is to try to discuss it with your neighbor, and work something out. It sounds like you might need to start by figuring out who your neighbor is. If you don’t even know who they are, and they don’t have any problem with the bamboo, I don’t understand why you think they would want to pay to solve your problem.

But, assuming you have/establish some decent relations with your neighbors, I’d suggest you discuss with them how your proposed changes will benefit the both of your properties, and be of no cost to them. I’d suspect the best you might expect would be that the neighbor might allow you to radically trim somewhat over the property line, at your own expense. But you have to clearly distinguish between what your neighbor legally HAS to do, and what you can voluntarily persuade them to do.

Good luck.

7

I wouldn’t advise cutting down a tree or tearing down someone’s storage shed and then asking for permission after the fact. But we’re talking about an invasive weed, that will grow back anyway unless the OP has it dug up from the roots.

It may come out from talking to the neighbors that neither knows the history of the bamboo. It could have been planted originally by the OP’s predecessor and invaded the neighbors yard.

8

No, you’re talking about a neighbor’s property - over which you have few, if any rights. Modifying another’s property without permission is always a bad idea.

The last half of the last sentence, though, is spot on. In most cases, simply cutting down the bamboo is a very short term solution. Bamboo grows back very quickly (some species can grow as much as 3 feet in 24 hours!). Unless the plants are eradicated, you will be in an endless cycle of paying someone to cut it down.

9

Yeah - I’d imagine the only solution likely to be permanent would be to dig up and poison the bamboo up to the property line, and then install pavement or a retaining wall or something to prevent it from coming back.

Other than that, just get some local with a chainsaw on retainer… And consider reconfiguring your property to avoid this bamboo causing future problems.

10

Okay, so I live in a hurricane-prone area and there was this huge tree that was 100% on my neighbor’s property (also a rental; homeowners do not live there). There was a giant limb hanging over my roof to the point where the limb had rubbed a hole into the roof. I had to get the entire roof replaced, but before I could do that, I had to get that limb out of the way. And I did not want that thing dropping on my house in a storm.

Years ago, the owners had approached me and given me their numbers and asked that I call them if there was ever any sort of problem with their renters. I called and asked permission for the tree service to be on their property if they couldn’t reach the offending branch from mine. The tree company also asked for the homeowners’ numbers and contacted them also to make verify that they had permission. I paid for all of it. (And now I have a lovely, brand new, shiny, metal roof!)

Contrast that with the neighbors on the other side: There was a tree that was right on the property line. The HO approached me several times but didn’t come right out and say what he wanted. “Hey, Dogzilla, we’re thinking about taking that limb off that hangs over our garage…” Me: “Great idea!” I think they were trying to hint to me to split the costs with them, and if they’d come right out and asked, I might have considered it. But I’m not Southern and I don’t do subtle hints, so eventually they just got a tree service (who contacted me for permission to be on my property to get to the offending limb) and paid for it themselves.

I don’t know what the laws are here or where the OP is, but in my head, the rule of thumb is: if it’s mostly on my property, it’s my problem and I can cut down anything I want and if it’s mostly on yours… then it’s your problem. That said, asking a direct question rather than trying to hint around is probably a good approach *if *there’s already a friendly relationship established.

11

Yeah - and generally limbs that overhang your property can be trimmed, so long as doing so doesn’t kill the tree. Getting access can be an issue, tho - in extreme situations if the neighbor does not agree, you might need to hire a crane/boom.

But such tree issues are not the same as dealing w/ the evil bamboo. Around here it is more like if my neighbor plants English Ivy along the property line, or does nothing to keep weeds out of his lawn - which spread to my lawn. Not a heck of a lot I can do other than eradicate it up to the property line.

12

do you have an HOA?

13

Legally, you can cut down the plants which are growing on your property and you can trim the branches which go over your property. But if you kill the bamboo on his side, he may be able to sue for damages to replace those plants.

But a bigger problem is that bamboo is very tough to kill. You can’t just chop it down and be done with it. There’s all kinds of intertwined roots. You could dig down along the property line and cut all the roots, but the remaining bamboo on his side of the line will grow new roots and try to push up. You would likely need to dig down and put some sort of barrier along the property line to prevent the root spread.

The neighbor may not see the bamboo as a nuisance–especially in Hawaii. The stuff is everywhere. Maybe if you were in a place where bamboo was rare you might have a case against it spreading, but I doubt that would work in Hawaii.

14

UPDATE:

Wow, can’t believe it’s nearly two years since I posted that. Just thought I’d give the outcome, since I always appreciate it when people come back to give the end of the story.

Nothing was done for a while, and one night I came close to being killed (no joke, I am not exaggerating) when a not-too-giant bamboo stalk fell across the driveway. I had to move it in order to get my car down to the carport, and as I dragged it out of the way, it dislodged a dead stalk that was huge - easily 6" in diameter. That stalk crashed down with no warning, in the dark, landing about an inch from my toe. Had it landed on my head, I’d be dead. The dead stalk was too heavy for me to move - I had to park on the street and wait until some strong workmen were on the property next day and were able to saw it into pieces and remove it.

I told this story to my neighbor and pointed out that since it was her bamboo she’d be liable if anyone was injured and decided to sue. She is trying to sell the place, and I noted that she’d probably need a disclosure statement to let new owners know about the issue. I also offered to pay 1/2 the cost of trimming the bamboo way back.

She agreed to splitting the cost and found a service to take care of the bamboo for $2600. Then she decided I should only pay 1/3, not 1/2, of the cost, but I offered to pay $1000, and she accepted.

Now I have a much safer driveway and a neighbor full of goodwill. In a few years another trim will be needed - by then there will be a new neighbor, most likely (she’s going to stay put until the house sells), and hopefully a similarly friendly deal can be worked out.

The End!

15

Wow! That’s a great ending! Congratulations all around.

(But especially by escaping death by bamboo!)

16

Bamboo, seriously, is one formidable plant; you can almost hear it growing. Glad you were not a victim of bamb-icide, now all you have to worry about are the volcanoes.

17

I love when people come back with story endings! I’m glad you got a good outcome on this and really glad you escaped the death by bamboo!

18

Nice turnout; but note laws may be different in other states. For instance, in NY, unless you previously warned a neighbor that a hanging limb was dangerous and you wanted it dealt with (and you documented this), if it fell your neighbor would have no responsibility. We had such an “incident”. During a tropical storm a 2 big branches cracked off two of our trees that bordered the property. One limb fell onto the neighbors deck and damaged the railings, and the other fell on their shed and caused some damage. Their insurance paid for all; we were not liable. But then they pointed out that there were other “swords of Damocles” waiting to cause mayhem and asked us to take care of it (and put it in writing). We got them taken care of immediately.

19

Big Bambu!

20

^ Dave’s not here, man!