AFA Condemns Day of Silence

The BBQ Pit
41

[QUOTE=JeffB]
A search of the United Methodist Church website doesn’t turns up anything about Wildmon being defrocked. It does turn up a petition from 2004 titled Regarding Rev. Donald Wildmon (40846-CS-R9999). The petition was:
The committee (Church and Society) recommended non-concurrence by a vote of 86-0, with the Plenary upholding that by a vote of 864-44. The fact that the UMC still refers to him as “Rev” indicates to me that he hasn’t be defrocked.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Jeff, for clearing that up. I agree the inference is that he’s still a UMC elder. As I noted to Shodan, I was going by information on a source I didn’t completely, in the absence of anything definitive I’d run into to that time. I appreciate your taking the time to research it.

42

I’m struck by the contrast.

The AFA seems to be scrupulously careful not to target any school unfairly.

Whereas you repeat an apparently false allegation from a source you know to be unreliable. Yet Wildmon is the one bearing false witness.

No doubt that mote in Wildmon’s eye is awfully uncomfortable. It is nice of you to volunteer to remove it.

Regards,
Shodan

43

[QUOTE=Shodan]
I’m struck by the contrast.

The AFA seems to be scrupulously careful not to target any school unfairly.Whereas you repeat an apparently false allegation from a source you know to be unreliable. Yet Wildmon is the one bearing false witness.

No doubt that mote in Wildmon’s eye is awfully uncomfortable. It is nice of you to volunteer to remove it.

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

Polycarp simply stated something that he had heard and even qualified it. He admitted that he was wrong when shown evidence that contradicted what he had heard.

The AFA is lying to (according to them) millions of people about an event to push their own agenda. They may not be targeting any school unfairly (as you put it) but they are certainly targeting the gay kids.

I also am struck by the contrast of these things.

44

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
Polycarp simply stated something that he had heard and even qualified it.
[/quote]
As I said, he repeated a false accusation, based on a source he knew to be unreliable, and then accused Wildmon of bearing false witness.

Well, only if you accept the other falsehood that Polycarp said, that refusal to participate in the DOS meant that Wildmon was in favor of killing gays. This is almost as nasty as Polycarp’s other false statement.

Again, it is difficult to prove a negative, and certainly if anyone can come up with a reliable cite that Wildmon wants gays to be killed, I will concede the point, But I don’t think you can, and frankly I have no interest in doing his research for him again.

If you care to, have at it. Show me somewhere where Wildmon has stated publicly that his opposition to the National Day of Silence is based on a desire to see gays murdered. If you can’t, I for one will assume it is just as recklessly false as his other accusation.

Regards,
Shodan

45

[QUOTE=Shodan]
As I said, he repeated a false accusation, based on a source he knew to be unreliable, and then accused Wildmon of bearing false witness.
Well, only if you accept the other falsehood that Polycarp said, that refusal to participate in the DOS meant that Wildmon was in favor of killing gays. This is almost as nasty as Polycarp’s other false statement.

Again, it is difficult to prove a negative, and certainly if anyone can come up with a reliable cite that Wildmon wants gays to be killed, I will concede the point, But I don’t think you can, and frankly I have no interest in doing his research for him again.

If you care to, have at it. Show me somewhere where Wildmon has stated publicly that his opposition to the National Day of Silence is based on a desire to see gays murdered. If you can’t, I for one will assume it is just as recklessly false as his other accusation.

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

I am not here to fight his battles, but I don’t interpret Polycarps statement the same way you do. The DOS is to bring attention to the fact that gay kids are bullied, harrassed, beaten and yes, murdered simply for being gay. The AFA is twisting the meaning of the day and opposing it.

From their release,

[QUOTE=AFA]
AFA is joining other family-oriented groups in urging parents to keep their children at home that day if their local school is participating in the DOS project. By remaining silent, the intent of the pro-homosexual students is to disrupt the classes while promoting the homosexual lifestyle.

DOS is sponsored by an activist homosexual group, the Gay, Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN). DOS leads the students to believe that every person who identifies as a homosexual, bisexual or cross-dresser is a victim of ongoing, unrelenting harassment and hate. Students are taught that homosexuality is a worthy lifestyle, homosexuality has few or no risks, and individuals are born homosexual and cannot change. Those who oppose such teaching are characterized as ignorant and hateful bigots.
[/QUOTE]

46

[QUOTE=Shodan]
I’m struck by the contrast.

The AFA seems to be scrupulously careful not to target any school unfairly.Whereas you repeat an apparently false allegation from a source you know to be unreliable. Yet Wildmon is the one bearing false witness.

No doubt that mote in Wildmon’s eye is awfully uncomfortable. It is nice of you to volunteer to remove it.

Regards,
Shodan
[/QUOTE]

Oh my fucking god. Polycarp made a mistake, when his mistake was pointed out he acknowledged it. If you really think that this one mistake, of a duration of a couple of days on an internet message board, in any way compares to Wildmon’s decades of slanders against millions of people, then you’re a fucking ridiculous moron. If you don’t really believe it, you’re a fucking ridiculous troll.

Either way, you’re fucking ridiculous.

47

[QUOTE=Otto]
Oh my fucking god. Polycarp made a mistake, when his mistake was pointed out he acknowledged it. If you really think that this one mistake, of a duration of a couple of days on an internet message board, in any way compares to Wildmon’s decades of slanders against millions of people, then you’re a fucking ridiculous moron. If you don’t really believe it, you’re a fucking ridiculous troll.

Either way, you’re fucking ridiculous.
[/QUOTE]

And ridiculous wants you to call him.

48

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
I am not here to fight his battles, but I don’t interpret Polycarps statement the same way you do. The DOS is to bring attention to the fact that gay kids are bullied, harrassed, beaten and yes, murdered simply for being gay. The AFA is twisting the meaning of the day and opposing it.

From their release,
[/QUOTE]

Thank you. That is precisely what I meant.

Shodan, what is your opinion on gay-bashing? What is your opinion on Lawrence King’s murder? Do you believe that we should or should not do something to combat it, and prevent any further such acts? If so, what?

And, by the way, Donald Wildmon and his “3,000,000-strong” association and his two tame “news services” have committed false witness so many times to my certain knowledge that it’s ridiculous to come to his defense.

49

[QUOTE=Shodan]
The AFA seems to be scrupulously careful not to target any school unfairly.
[/QUOTE]

Oh, puh-leeze. This is equivalent to praising the Klan for being scrupulously careful that the owner of the lawn where they burn a cross is, in fact, black.

50

[QUOTE=Polycarp]

Shodan, what is your opinion on gay-bashing? What is your opinion on Lawrence King’s murder? Do you believe that we should or should not do something to combat it, and prevent any further such acts? If so, what?

[/quote]
How utterly pathetic.

So it’s okay for you to do it? Also pathetic, but in a somewhat more hypocritical way.

Because this part of what the AFA said -

is pretty much word for word accurate.

Ah well. If a day of silence can give us a reprieve from the various drama queens and their bitch fest, perhaps it is a good idea after all.

Regards,
Shodan

51

Here’s the problem, though. From what I’ve seen of high schools, a kid doesn’t actually have to be gay to be harrassed about being gay. Being different or unpopular can be enough of a provocation. It seems to me encouraging people not to tease, harrass, taunt or bully people who are different is the very essence of Christian behaviour. Drawing people’s attention to the fact that people are getting bullied because of what they are perceived to be is, in my opinion, very much in keeping with Christ’s teachings. I see what Mr. Wildmon is asking as opposing that. Instead of speaking up for the outcast and oppressed, as Christ did, he’s encouraging the status quo to continue.

52

[QUOTE=Shodan]
How utterly pathetic.
[/QUOTE]

It’s a valid question. You’re apparently not infavor of this DoS deal - why? Absent anticipating some logistical difficulty one can only assume that you oppose it because you think beating on the gay kid is okay. If you have some other basis for arguing against it, you should probably share.

If, on the other hand, you’re just defending Wildmon, and not taking a position on the DoS, clarify.

Polycarp, you should probably just let the “defrocked” thing go. You threw something out there, and it didn’t stick. You can’t really defend it, even if the target is (and I’m not making a judgment here, just speaking hypothetically) a documented liar and/or defamer.

53

[QUOTE=Shodan]
Because this part of what the AFA said - is pretty much word for word accurate.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t see why everyone is fighting Shodan on this, he is right. As I mentioned earlier, the group may be reprehensible, but they did a good job of representing their opponents’ views in this instance. So much so, that someone else could have sent me that same description with the subject heading of “Look at the great thing these students are doing”.

This seems representative of an unfortunately common occurrence where people are afraid to give any credit to the opposing side of an argument, particularly when they see the other side as morally reprehensible. Sure, Hitler can be a great speaker, suicide bombers can be brave, and and anti-gay hate group can (on occasion) honestly represent their opponents’ views.

54

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
It’s a valid question.
[/quote]
No, it’s not. Because shit like this

is so stupid.

This is exactly what I am objecting to, and pretty much what the AFA said happens. If you refuse to fall into lockstep behind the DoS, you must be a murdering gay-basher.

I can’t remember who said it, but it’s true - nothing is so intolerant as a liberal talking about tolerance. “You have to support our agenda for a Day of Silence about tolerance - or we’ll spread lies about you and call you a murderer.”

Thanks for the lesson in tolerance.

Regards,
Shodan

55

[QUOTE=Shodan]
This is exactly what I am objecting to, and pretty much what the AFA said happens. If you refuse to fall into lockstep behind the DoS, you must be a murdering gay-basher.
[/QUOTE]

I remember folks trying to recruit me in college to participate in the DoS. Despite my simple “no thanks,” the reactions were pretty much what you describe – they looked at me as if I was a murdering gay-basher.

As a gay guy, I found that funny.

56

[QUOTE=atomicbadgerrace]
I remember folks trying to recruit me in college to participate in the DoS. Despite my simple “no thanks,” the reactions were pretty much what you describe – they looked at me as if I was a murdering gay-basher.

As a gay guy, I found that funny.
[/QUOTE]

How did they recruit you - sign language? :slight_smile:

Don’t be too hard on them - they were just disappointed they didn’t get the toaster.

Regards,
Shodan

57

[QUOTE=Shodan]
This is exactly what I am objecting to, and pretty much what the AFA said happens. If you refuse to fall into lockstep behind the DoS, you must be a murdering gay-basher.
[/QUOTE]

I’m not asking you to observe the day of silence. I’m asking why you oppose it, or even if you even oppose it. You’re throwing out deliberately obtuse responses, whingeing about being called a gay-basher, but not actually answering the question. I don’t give a crap if you’re against it, but I am curious as to why.

In any case, I didn’t call you a murdering gay-basher; I suggested that you might not wholly oppose other people beating up gay kids.

You might as well claim that I called a state governor a murderer because I criticized him for commuting someone else’s death sentence.

58

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
I’m not asking you to observe the day of silence. I’m asking why you oppose it, or even if you even oppose it. You’re throwing out deliberately obtuse responses, whingeing about being called a gay-basher, but not actually answering the question. I don’t give a crap if you’re against it, but I am curious as to why.
[/QUOTE]

Well, I’m not Shodan, but I can give you my reason for not being onboard the DoS train – I just don’t believe in its ability to effect change. In addition, I find the basic concept to be counterintuitive of its goals.

59

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
You’re throwing out deliberately obtuse responses, whingeing about being called a gay-basher, but not actually answering the question.
[/quote]

You said above that you were incapable of concluding other than I supported gay-bashing. That’s not obtuseness on my part; it is a knee-jerk reaction on yours.

Which is exactly my point. I did not react as automatically as you did; therefore you jumped immediately to the conclusion that I must be a gay-basher. Same as with Polycarp - Wildmon does not agree with Polycarp about the DoS; therefore Polycarp assumed this false rumor he heard must be true.

You are trying to figure out if I deserve to be tolerated or not. If I support the Dos, then I can be tolerated. If I don’t, then it is OK to call me a gay-basher and Wildmon a murderer and liar and blah blah blah, based on nothing more than what you think you heard.

This sounds like tolerance to you? People deserve decent treatment - unless they don’t agree with you?

Feh.

Regards,
Shodan

60

While I haven’t found a direct quote from Wildmon calling for gays to be killed, there is this.

And what does the president of the AFA Tim Wildmon (Donald’s son) say about this person?