Afghanistan is Destroying a World Wonder

Great Debates
#1

(Moderators: I wasn’t sure where to post this… it’s not a question, nor is it mundane and pointless, nor is it a poll, nor is it a great debate. it’s simply a very important news event, which a majority of people seem not to have heard of)

Read this article folks:

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/south/03/03/afghan.buddhas.02/index.html

The Afghanistanian government is stealing a treasure which belongs to all humankind. Think about the man hours required to create this wonder, and the fact that an extremist, semi-stable government which will be a thought of the past in a century is destroying this in just days, all because of it’s distorted thought.

If the U.S. ever engages Afghanistan, I’ll be first in line to sign up and pump them full of lead. I love history, and they’re stealing from all future generations.

#2

I don’t see how it belongs to all human kind but I suppose that’s not really the point. Destroying works of art pales in comparison to what they’re doing to the rights of women and others. Why do I see more outrage over old statues then I do when it comes to that lives that Taliban destroys?

Marc

#3

hate to sound cold, but there are several reasons:

  1. Those people live in such conditions by refusing to revolt. So long as they tolerate it, it’s their own choice.

  2. Two hundred years down the road, which is more significant… the miserable, short lives of a down trodden people, or a 2000 year old monument which was cast into the past by a fascist regime of towelheads?

#4

Yeah, how dare those towelheads tear down statues that are sacred to other towelheads? Sheesh!

#5

Of course muffinman, and you’ll be the first out there to lead them from the front and teach them how to deflect those AK-47 rounds with their bare bodies…
:rolleyes:

Maybe we could make it a crime under international law, “refusing to revolt”, then we could jail everyone who doesn’t live under a democratic system, so that’d take care of the Iraqis, the Iranians, the Chinese…hell, it would even take care of the Cubans!

#6

Those buddhas are not sacred to Buddhists. The Buddhist take is “why do be care about a pile of rocks?”

They are valuable to us… you know, the stable, rational society, the one with the stable government and high standard of living. The ones with brains large enough to realize that archeological remains are an incredibly valuable treasure.

Besides the great loss of historical artifacts, there is another great loss in this whole scenario. The Taliban and other extreme Moslem groups continue to degrade the reputation and credibiltiy of the Moslem people as a whole, and this barbaric act only further reinforces that perception. It’s a shame to see a generally peaceful religion portrayed as warmongers thanks to these semi-sentient wastes of carbon-based elements.

#7

BTW, Eve posted about this last month, you can read the link here (although it was in the pit, so it’s maybe not such a surprise that some
people may have missed it)…having said that it did come up in a search.

#8

Smells like a GD thread to me…

Regardless if they are tearing down a monument that dates back that far or not should not be enough for a person to state:

Surely the world has undergone worse in terms of atrocious behavior, this we know. While I don’t agree with the situation at all but history is more than monuments or statues, it’s what it teaches us through the ages.

“Mother Nature” destroys human created monuments but the stories and myths live on. This is more important than wanting to pump someone full of lead for the sake a society we disagree with. What you state is also the exact reason why so many go to war over land, property, etc… No one’s rights as humans are being denied in this act, history is being destroyed. I don’t doubt that the act is unkind to future generations but I don’t think the act is worthy of shooting another being over. There is little in this world I can see as worthy of killing or being violent. Being upset, yes, but statements like that scare me.

#9

[list=1]
I didn’t realize George W. Bush was a poster on this board…

And I guess this means we can expect some major developments in U.S. policy in Central Asia.

#10

I have to admit something. When I read about women’s rights being violated in China I get very angry. But when I read about this I marched into my brother’s room in anger to tell him what was going on. I was pissed… See what I’m getting at? As a history lover I was royally pissed that someone would ever think of destroying these works. But I would never march out of the room to tell someone about a human rights tragedy. Does that make me cold? Or is the fact that human rights issues are so frequent that I have been desensitized? Maybe you have to be a true history buff to know what I’m even saying.

On another (theoretical) note…

What would the world do if Egypt decided to do the same thing. They are a sovereign nation. They make their own choices. But say they one day converted into a super-fundamentalist Christian society and wanted to rid themselves of their evil pagan past. So they decide to destroy all evidence of ancient Egyptians… Pyramids included (forget that such artifacts bring in billions in tourism dollars – we’re speaking wacky mightier-than-thou cults here). As with the current story, this is based on religion, thus money offerings from museums and world banks makes no difference. Would the world stand by and watch while they destroy these artifacts? I say they would… It’s their country and little we can do about it. But I know I’d sob my head off for weeks!

Thoughts?

SF

#11

Note: There is a Pit Thread about this very matter.

Now,

No, you simply sound misinformed. A realistic idea of the possibilities of “revolt” might lead one to revise one’s use of the word “tolerate”. Sitting in the well-protected confines of the first world its real easy to throw around opinions like this.

I’ll ask you to learn a little more about the Afghanistan and esp. its recent history before making statements that frankly insult the poor bastards suffering under Taliban rule.

And this last, ignorant comment, added nothing to your analysis.

My harshnesss here is only slightly tempered by your follow up comments. However, I see no reason why “extremists” should degrade the credibility of Muslims any more than extremists degrage the credibility of Xtians.

The OP should rephrase and regroup.

#12

There was another thread about this topic? No way!

#13

I’m not a moderator…however:

1}This seems like an opinion to me, therefore IMHO seems to be the place for it; i.e. you think this is a bad thing.

2}Re: pumping people full of lead. **THE GODDAMN STATUES ARE ROCKS! LOUSY, GODDAMN ROCKS!! AND THAT’S ALL THEY ARE!! ** Human lfe has infinite value; rocks, even rocks that are “art” do not! :mad:

<sarcasm>Just how do you intend to separate the statue-smashers from the innocent by-standers, Oh Homicidal Wise One?</sarcasm> :rolleyes:

Muffinman–if anybody is a “warmonger” or a “semi-sentient wastes of carbon-based elements” it’s a jerk who puts lousy rocks ahead of human life. Drop dead.

#14

What’s up with the talk of the people of Afganistan revolting? They did revolt.

In the late 1980s the Soviet Union had a puppet government in place. The people revolted. In 1989 the Soviets gave up fighting and pulled their troops out.

There where many different factions in the revolt. They then fought each other for control of the country. The Taliban faction controls about two thirds of the country and declared themselves the “government” in 1996.

The fighting is still going on.

#15

I dunno. I’ve met some human beings that had significantly less value than rocks.

I do disagree with Muffinman’s simplistic solution, but I understand his anger.

I was amused by the poster’s arguement that human life has infinite value being followed up with the above quote.

#16

I am. And we do not tell each other to ‘drop dead’ in General Questions. Do not do that again.

This thread is off to Great Debates. In case you are wondering, they do not tell each other to ‘drop dead’ there, either.

#17

>>THE GODDAMN STATUES ARE ROCKS! LOUSY, GODDAMN ROCKS!! AND THAT’S ALL THEY ARE!! >>
Nope. I believe they have a soul. Art has a soul. Someone created it for the enjoyment, in one way or another, of others. What these people did is reprhensible and I wouldn’t get too hard on Muffinman talking about pumping anyone full of lead. I doubt he means it literally. I think he is just releasing a little bit of anger, justified anger if you ask me. I doubt he’d feel good about going through with it if he had a gun and was face to face with a human being. And as far as being outraged over the destruction of statues compared to the horrible human rights violations these regimes put onto others, well, that’s not the point of this OP. His point is that it is a tragedy that these wonders have been taken from the world by a militant group of fools. What they do to and feel about the importance of women is disgusting and so is what they do to works of art. And what they do to the works of art symbolizes how they feel about women, etc. They don’t like the works of art, then why not transport them somewhere else, where others may enjoy them?

#18

The phrase “drop dead” is rude, inappropriate & could be misinterperted as a threat. It was not, & is not intended as such.
I apologize to all parties concerned for my poor choice of words.

#19

Tony

I think there are several reasons why the Taliban won’t “transport then somewhere else”:
They genuinely do believe that the statues are, to some extent, an affront to their religion;
They do rather enjoy the fact that most of the world is pleading with them not to destroy the statues;
They are a little unwieldy to actually move, check out the first picture in this link.

#20

Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor wrote:

Tell that to your life-insurance adjuster.

To put on my “cold, uncaring, inhuman” hat for the moment: One major reason people get more cheesed off when statues are destroyed than when other people are killed is that statues last longer. A person will live for, what, 100-150 years tops? A statue of the Buddha will last, and has lasted, a heck of a lot longer than that.

In Arthur C. Clarke’s SF novel Rendezvous with Rama, humanity builds a gigantic surveillance network to keep track of all the comets and asteroids hurtling around the Solar system. We built this surveillance network because a near-Earth asteroid smashed into Milan, or Florence, or some other really-old-and-big city in Italy. But it was not the million or so lives that the asteroid took, nor the zillions of Lire in property damage and economic disruption it caused, that was the main impetus for building the asteroid detection network – it was all the ancient, world-famous works of art situated in that Italian city which were eradicated from the face of the Earth forever. We take notice when people are killed, but we take action when artifacts and relics are wiped out.