Just reading this story and I was wondering where the insurgents source the explosives needed for their devices.
I imagine that not much explosive is needed these days, but it has to come from somewhere. I would guess there is little statistical evidence of the insurgents blowing themselves up handling it.
And a two part question- they couldn’t recover the vehicle. Is Afghanistan so knife edge that a vehicle can’t be recovered? That does not inspire confidence.
Typically and from what I have read, ieds are made from fertilizer and diesel fuel. As for recovering the vehicle, it may have simply been that it was judged too badly damaged to be worth recovering. But I have never been in that situation
What I’d heard is that terror groups get their high explosives from Eastern European nations. After the fall of the USSR, the satellite nations have the industry to manufacture these explosives in bulk, and no USSR to sell it too, no money to fund anti-smuggling ops, and a populace that needs hard currency badly. Add to that a nation that isn’t as worried about the loss of international prestige if it were traced back to them, and there you go. Sorry I don’t have the specific citation, but the result was pretty striking, shortly after the USSR fell, PLO bombs went from smokeless power and nails, capable a killing a few people, to the bus-leveling high powered ones.
The majority is home made using things like high nitrogen based fertilizers and other techniques. Another decent amount come from old Russian munitions, mines, and grenades left over from their invasion.
To your second question, yes. Engagements can become intense enough to justify blowing a vehicle and getting out. Recovery is a huge pain in the ass even without enemy actively shooting at you.
I think they are being shipped in by Acme Explosives.
Sincerely,
Wile E. Coyote
Bear, since reports are that they had an MH-47 or two tagging along on the raid, couldn’t the MH-47 have slung up the modified MH-60 and lifted it back to Jallallabad? It looks like it has the payload capacity, not that it would be easy to do in the dark for 120 miles back to base. How long does it take to sling up a downed helicopter with something like a MH-47? (I’m presuming that there aren’t any heavier lifters available with the retirement of the MH-53)
Edit, never mind, thought that Cicero was talking about the bin Laden raid. It pays to read the article before commenting… (Lol.)
I would not expect them to be using ANFO as their primary explosive. While it is certainly potent, it takes a hell of a bang to set it off. While this is generally a good thing from a safety POV, I wouldn’t expect terrorists to be overly concerned about that and it simply moves their problem back one step in that they need some kind of explosive to detonate the ANFO.
Another source might be explosives from dud artillery rounds or bombs like the Viet Cong used occasionally. I would think the Afghans could make other explosives like nitrocellulose or picric acid if they put their minds to it.
I would think a larger problem would be reliable detonators. These are touchy and homemade ones are as likely to kill the bomber as the bomb-ee.
Testy
Ammonium nitrate fertilizer is used to make 95% of the IEDs in Afghanistan. Explosives - ANFO (Ammonium Nitrate - Fuel Oil)
Like I said, it is the primary source of their explosives.
Bear
Well, ignorance fought successfully!
Thanks
Testy
So many issues. The structural integrity of the damaged helicopter was unknown. How could they be sure that any attachment points would hold. The damaged helicopter could break apart and fall during flight. Now they have to land again just to dispose of it properly. Not to mention it could have landed on civilians. Not to mention that it could cause the CH-47 carrying it to crash if it breaks away unevenly and causes some kind of instability. All too many variable.
Plus the fact that the CH-47 was needed to carry personnel. It is already a risk to carry personnel in a helicopter carrying a sling load. It is an even greater risk to carry them in a bird carrying an unknown, potentially unstable slung payload.
This is all assuming that the CH-47 even had sling-load equipment stowed away on board somewhere. Plus, like you mention, there is a time constraint and it was during hours of limited visibility. On top of that, I doubt any of those guys on the ground had practiced rigging a sling load recently. Or even knew how to rig a helicopter at all. It isn’t something commonly slung afterall.
Wow! I had no idea it was so high. Thanks. It makes a lot of sense, considering the history of guerrilla groups using bombs of the homemade variety, but in 2011, my brain wanted to come up with something more complicated.
I suspect that smuggling in explosives will be easier over the next few years - not because the U.S. is backing out so much as because there’s a greater demand for it.
When I teach U.S. History and World History, I focus on WWI & II warfare for a few days each unit and we cover: a-bomb, planes, subs, guns, radios/electronics, and the classic Molotov cocktail.
This thread is giving me ideas for current events discussions…
ANFO, ANAL, Potassium Chlorate, and Urea Nitrate are their favorites. Though I would say all those after ANFO are less common than just repurposing old ordinance and artillery or stripping the explosives out of unused or dud Russian and Chinese stuff.
The number may be dropping soon, since these fertilizers are illegal now in Afghanistan and farmers are encouraged (forced) to trade them for safer fertilizers. Any dangerous fertilizers with the potential for bomb making get confiscated by ISAF patrols.
All of the blasting caps I have seen have all been legit industrial or military blasting caps. I have heard of home-made ones, but never seen any personally. They don’t seem to be having trouble getting reliable electric detonators.
[Bear_Nenno**
Thanks. That is a surprise as well. I would think the unexploded ones could be traced back to whoever made them and the supply shut down, at least temporarily.
Regards
Testy
From my rigorous study of Fight Club, explosives can be made with otherwise inert materials like orange juice and glycerine. It doesn’t seem like it’d be hard to get ahold of those items individually.
I’ve heard for years about terroists using “fertilizer” for bombs but never really considered the details of what that meant exactly. So your link was very interesting. Is this type of fertilizer common? I mean, have I been buying bomb grade chemicals to put on my plants all these years and I never knew it?
Check the numbers on your bag. Ammonium Nitrate fertilizer is around 25-35% Nitrogen. The numbers on the bag will be like 33-0-0, 26-0-0 or 17-0-0.
Those numbers represent the content of Nitrogen, Phosphorus, and Potassium. Each of them have a specific agricultural purpose.
The PLO were blowing up buses in 1991 ?
How much stuff is coming through Iran and Pakistan?
Rob