"African Americans"

[Satan]

<< And I’ve found that people who kow-tow to be politically correct (oh, excuse me… PC) are saying things because they think they should but often don’t have any idea WHY they are saying those things. >>

I seriously doubt you’ve found any such thing, and in fact are just reacting to having to behave a certain way in public. Certainly there are goofy elements at the fringes of any political movement, but to debase “politically correct” into “PC” into a boogeyman, and then use it when you mainly mean “polite” is exactly the sort of anti-language thing you’re complaining about.

Seriously doubt anything you want - I didn’t get that shirt I mentioned just the second before I typed the line, you know.

I behaved fine in public before PC was a cliqe, an I’ll behave just as fine when it goes the way of Pet Rocks.

I don’t mean polite. PC is not polite. Try saying something that is not PC while surrounded by PC syncophants and see how “polite” they are to you, even if what you said was not rude to begin with, just not within the realm of THEIR acceptable vocabulary.

You want to call short people “vertically challenged,” by all means do. I’ll laugh just as hard at you as anyone else.

Tell you what, Dufuz. How about going to The Apollo in Harlem (like I have) and go up to the black people there and say things like, “I’m so glad you are proud to be an African-American!” They’ll laugh just as hard at you as I do.

So wait, you’re in charge of deciding who all is entitled to be .25 Cherokee or Irish or whatever? Huh.

No, Dufuz. I’m in charge of what I call them. You can call them turd burglers for all I care. They can call themselves that.

All I know is that I grew up with a sense of who other people are and how to treat them, and if I have to, what to call them. Living in New York City most of my life, I managed to not get lynched with my behavior in public or the way I spoke to people of other ethnicities. And since my speech mirrored my toughts almost verbatum, I think my parents did a pretty good job of raising me.

And I don’t need you or anyone else to tell me what I should say or how I should say it, thanks.

Ah, there’s the dreaded “L” word. Now, as to your second statement, Bunk. Do you see lots of Pro-drug legalization on TV? How about radical animal rights, hmmm? Certainly not compared to the number of Burger King commercials you see.

Fine. The media is not liberally biased at all. Nope. Not even. However, I see you take no issue with me saying that “white liberal guilt” plays into the continued usage of the term “African-American” but its the “L” word itself pisses you off? Too bad, Dufuz. That’s the truth.

I am not offended by all liberal ideals, just the dumb ones. This is one of them.

I am not aware that anyone is requiring, or even expecting that you use the term “African American” in place of “black,” and I am arguing here that said term is useful or descriptive in certain contexts. “African American,” you have to admit, has a certain scholarly, anthropological ring to it, and that’s generally the context where I would expect it to be used.

Which is why hardly anyone who is not white and the dreaded “L” word uses it on a regular basis. Which is why the people it is reputed to be describing rarely use it.

You would figure if the description was so damn peachy, maybe someone who actually IS that ethnicity might subscribe to categorizing themselves in that manner, wouldn’t you?

When the terminology for black people evolved from “niggers” to “negros” to “colored” to “afro-american” to “black,” it was the black people of those times who embraced these changes, usually to get rid of negative feelings the old words had.

Don’t you find it ironic that in this case, while a black man may have coined the term, that so many people of that ethnicity don’t seem to use it all that much?

In fact, the irony is compounded when you have a generation of black people who do, in fact, refer to themselves as “niggaz.” Kinda goes back to square one, and instead of making up a new word to call themselves that allowed them to move past the pain the previous terminology might have caused, we have a generation which seems to revel in the pain of the most heavy-duty word black people were ever called!

I find this to be far more relevent in discussions of things “scholarly (and) anthropological” than some word that this ethnic group has NOT taken as it’s own, don’t you?

Again, I do notice the various ethnic subgroups of white people in America commonly refered to as such. Ann Landers apologized to Polish Americans, not white people. For a person who wants to de-emphasize race, you seem to be reluctant to put any of your ideas into effect.

Ann Landers appologized to Polish-Americans because (I assume) she made a dumb comment about them. Maybe something about how many it takes to screw in a light bulb, I don’t know, nor do I care.

But if (for example) Rudy Guiliani were to make one of his great statements about how his police force did not overreact to the beating of a black man, but he later decided to relent to public opinion and apologize to all “African-Americans,” it would thereby eliminate his apology to Haitian-Americans, Cuban-Americans, Aboriginal Australian-Americans, ad nauseum.

Whereas if he simply said, “I’m sorry to the black commununity,” it is not nearly as divisive (though I’m sure ANYTHING Der Mayor does will be divisive somehow!) as the former, and it offends nobody.

I de-emphasize race by not usually bringing it up in discussions. Since I kinda have to in this discussion, or else there would BE no discussion, I’d suggest you not judge my feelings on the matters of race relations in a thread totally about it. Because you would be wrong.

But if I am every mugged by a person who happens to be black, and the police want a description, I think I’ll opt for “black” instead of “African-American.” It would be so… silly the other way.

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Yer pal,
Satan

[The_Crimson_Hipster_Dufuz]

<< You want to call short people “vertically challenged,” by all means do. I’ll laugh just as hard at you as anyone else. >>

While you’re looking up “slippery slope,” see if you can’t find “straw man” too.

<< Tell you what, Dufuz. How about going to The Apollo in Harlem (like I have) and go up to the black people there and say things like, “I’m so glad you are proud to be an African-American!” They’ll laugh just as hard at you as I do. >>

I can’t imagine anyone saying “I’m so glad you are proud to be black” either, at least not seriously, nor am I especially interested in a ghetto point contest right this minute.

However, If I was delivering a paper to, oh, say Sarah Brown-Clarke, head of our African American cultural studies program here at YSU on, I dunno, “African American linguistic dialect” I wouldn’t expect anyone to laugh, unless I included funny drawings or something.

<< No, Dufuz. I’m in charge of what I call them. You can call them turd burglers for all I care. They can call themselves that. >>

I see. Hmmm. So, if you have a friend named Jennifer, who hates being called “Jenny,” would you express your intention to ignore this by wearing a shirt with a slogan like “Fuck Jennifer! Think!”?
<< All I know is that I grew up with a sense of who other people are and how to treat them, and if I have to, what to call them. Living in New York City most of my life, I managed to not get lynched with my behavior in public or the way I spoke to people of other ethnicities. And since my speech mirrored my toughts almost verbatum, I think my parents did a pretty good job of raising me. >>

I’m sorry, did someone turn the “biography” sign on? I don’t think they did…Phil? Did you turn the “biography” sign on? Would you please make even a tiny effort to stay on topic? Thanks.
<< Fine. The media is not liberally biased at all. >>

The media has no biases, other than appeal to the broadest audience. Practically by definition, this means it can neither be “conservative” or “liberal” If you would like to associate those terms with agendas rather than extremities from a norm, then I would say the media is liberal on some issues, conservative on others, but not especially much in any direction. Again, where are the radical animal rights during nightline? Drug legalization during 60 minutes? I don’t see a lot of stumping for, hmmm…gay marriage, or anything.

<< Nope. Not even. However, I see you take no issue with me saying that “white liberal guilt” plays into the continued usage of the term “African-American” but its the “L” word itself pisses you off? Too bad, Dufuz. That’s the truth. >>

Well, no, Edith Anne. The truth is black is a more or less informal term, and African American a somewhat more scholarly one. That’s why, say, Harris polls ask respondants if they are “African American” and the news talks about the “African American” vote, but you say “black” to your friends and hear it on rap albums, etc.
<< I am not offended by all liberal ideals, just the dumb ones. This is one of them. >>

What, that we should de-emphasize race? Gotcha.
<< Which is why hardly anyone who is not white and the dreaded “L” word uses it on a regular basis. >>

I hardly ever say “sodium chloride,” but there are contexts where that’s the preferred term over “salt.”
<< When the terminology for black people evolved from “niggers” to “negros” to “colored” to “afro-american” to “black,” it was the black people of those times who embraced these changes, usually to get rid of negative feelings the old words had. >>

I seriously doubt “afro-american” caught on in the way “black” did, for the obvious reason it’s not as catchy, rather than any lack of descriptive power.
<< In fact, the irony is compounded when you have a generation of black people who do, in fact, refer to themselves as “niggaz.” >>

The amusing thing about that is I notice they refer to pretty much anyone as “niggaz.” Still, I would advise you to revise your policy of referring to people the way they choose to on this one here.
<< I de-emphasize race by not usually bringing it up in discussions. >>

Interesting. You know, African-Americans enjoy speaking about race as long as you aren’t patronizing about the subject.

<< Since I kinda have to in this discussion, or else there would BE no discussion, I’d suggest you not judge my feelings on the matters of race relations in a thread totally about it. >>

I triple dog defy you to find even one example of me speculating as to your feelings on the matters of race relations.

<< But if I am every mugged by a person who happens to be black, >>

“Colin Powell is openly white. He just happens to be black.”

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{\¶/}

[Satan]

So, if you have a friend named Jennifer, who hates being called “Jenny,” would you express your intention to ignore this by wearing a shirt with a slogan like “Fuck Jennifer! Think!”?

If black people in America called themselves African-Americans, and asked that others did as well, I would feel differently.

There was a time that if a white person slipped up and used the antiquated term “negro” for a black person, the black person would correct that person - maybe respectfully, maybe not - that he did not wish to be identified with that remark. That is not the case here at all.

A more appropriate analogy would be if Jennifer didn’t care whether you called her Jen, Jenny, Jennifer or J-Rock and answered to all without prejudice. I don’t think I have a tee-shirt which covers that one.

I’m sorry, did someone turn the “biography” sign on? I don’t think they did…Phil? Did you turn the “biography” sign on? Would you please make even a tiny effort to stay on topic? Thanks.

It’s well within topic. Political Correctness is all about, supposedly, how you “treat” people, though I think it has evolved into what you “call” people.

Using my actions, since according to you and other PC proponents that is what truly matters, as an analogy is the only logical thing to do. Sorry you think that personal experience is somehow inferior to the weak analogies you constantly come up with.

The truth is black is a more or less informal term, and African American a somewhat more scholarly one.

Used predominantly by white liberals. You have not commented on this, other than by taking issue with the “L” word, mainly because you cannot.

<< I am not offended by all liberal ideals, just the dumb ones. This is one of them. >>

What, that we should de-emphasize race? Gotcha.

You got nothing! Make a single good argument about how a more divisive term (African-American divides black Americans of African descent from black Americans of other heritages, even though they face the same struggles) that is predominantly used by people of other races to describe them somehow de-emphasizes race.

It EMPHASIZES race, pal.

In fact, wouldn’t you say the person who invented this term, Jesse Jackson, has a litany of emphasizing race? I would. It’s not always a bad thing, IMHO, to emphasize ones heritage and be proud of it, but look at the mans record and tell me with a straight face that he is always emphasizing race.

I hardly ever say “sodium chloride,” but there are contexts where that’s the preferred term over “salt.”

Yes, in chemistry textbooks.

But since I don’t spend hell of a lot of time in Chemistry classes, nor am I a chemistry teacher, I’ll stick to salt.

And using that same analogy towards this little issue, I do not find myself in situations where using African-American wouldn’t look plain dumb.

And not being a guilty white liberal male, I don’t feel the need to say it every time I want to use the word “black.”

You know, African-Americans enjoy speaking about race as long as you aren’t patronizing about the subject.

I am never patronizing about race relations. I realize that there is pain and repercussions from many years before I was ever born which need to be adressed - not legislatively, but by open lines of communication.

I maintain that using a neat little word to show how “scholarly” we are and how much we understand their plight does nothing to help the situation, because it does not show we understand their plight.

I think if I were to engage in a conversation with a black person about race relations (and I have), and the whole time use a word to describe him or her that he or she does not, that would be patronizing.

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Yer pal,
Satan

[handy]

I think Whoppee said it best. She said,
‘I don’t consider myself African American because I have been to Africa and those people [Africans] don’t look, talk or act like me.’

[ruadh]

Maybe it’s geographical, I actually do know quite a few people who call themselves African-American. Although I doubt any of them would seriously object to being called black.