Its been long enough since the election for the emotions to calm down( and not just for the moveon.org people , or the Michael Moore fans.)
The morning after the election, the press was full of serious editorials worrying about the future. Maps of"New Canada" with the blue states attached were published, not just as satire, but as serious commentary on the coming disintegration of American society. Thomas Friedman of the NY times said he worried that the America he loves is not the same as the America that elected Bush. And the web was full of people who said they were seriously thinking of moving to Canada.
So --2 questions:
do you know anyone personally who actually moved to Canada?
how is the Left handling the “disaster” of last November? I haven’t heard much from Michael Moore during the past few months.Are the more extreme elements of the left calming down, and even embarrassed by their predictions of doom?
What makes you think those predictions won’t come true? It’s only July, year 1. Last time around, it took them a full three years to completely screw the pooch.
Me thinks you’re taking peoples hyperbole and satire a little to seriously. I don’t think many people held that their would be an instant appocalypse Dec 1 if GWB won the election. Nor do I think any sizable number of people spoke seriously about succedding from the union or moving in mass up to Canada. Do you honestly they were serious??
I belive they’re settling down to fight the good fight, limit the impact the Repubs can make in the next 4 yrs and hope for a better outcome in 2006 and 2008. Michael Moore is, I beleive, working on a new documentary about Health Care in the US.
Well, the USA didn’t quite disintegrate (well, not formally) under LBJ & Nixon. I think after those two, Bush’s policies & attitude can be seen as familiar & endurable.
To answer your direct question, I moved to Canada after the election. While that wasn’t my primary reason for the move, it did carry a lot weight. I moved to be able to live with my husband. We had been debating whether he should come to the states, or I should come to Canada. We had been leaning heavily towards him joining me, due to the fact that I have 3 children from a previous marriage who all live in Ohio. However, when he came to visit me in December after the election we settled on Canada. Not because we won’t miss my kids (ages 23, 19, & 17) but because my husband has medical issues requiring 4 prescriptions. I don’t see US policy changing to the point where we can get affordable medical insurance that will cover his pre-existing conditions. At least not soon enough for our family. I was also deeply disturbed by the the distinct possibility that our government lied to us about the circumstances leading to the war, (which, by the way, I supported until it became obvious that there were no WMDs), and by talk of an amendment banning gay marriage. Would I have moved only for those reasons? Probably not. But I was already feeling more and more that my admittedly liberal values had no place in US society. Of course, I was living in Southwestern Pennsylvania at the time. I was feeling marginalized, and while living so far from my children makes me sad, leaving the States does not. It’s a relief to be here.
Well, my sister and her husband seriously considered it…and their reasons were all because Bush winning was the end of the world, blah blah blah. But its more difficult to get into Canada than she realized…for someone who is still a student with no job (neither her or her husband work and they have a 2 year old child…Canada wasn’t exactly eager to have them). Maybe next year after she gets her Accupuncture and Herbalism degree she’d have a better chance…I’m sure there aren’t enough of those in Canada and they would be happy to have her then.
To my mind I’d say its kind of hard to really despair about the US right now. Oh, the war in Iraq isn’t going well, no doubt, but from our perspective while the cost in dollars has been high the cost in lives has been very low. Its certainly had a negative effect on US moral at home, but I think its been offset by a recovering economy, folks getting back to work, and by the fact that, well, the world really HASN’T ended (yet), Bush et al hasn’t managed to get evolution out of our schools or make abortion illegal, many of Bush’s initiatives have been halted (like his reform of SS for instance), there hasn’t been a draft and Mad Bush hasn’t invaded any new countries…nor does he appear to be preparing to take over the world or make himself king or something. So, all in all, I think the Left is sniping in a target rich environment and waiting for their chance in '06 and '08.
As has been pointed out in a few places, it isn’t all that easy.
I have my passport now.
I’ve asked the necessary questions and found out I can’t just move to Canada and then start looking for a Canadian job. (I certainly can’t afford to live in Canada without employment). Looks like I would first have to move to an American town close enough to the Canadian border to nip across and go to job interviews, and once I’ve got a Canadian job lined up, file for the paperwork to allow me to be hired in Canada.
Is this post a joke? How can I move to Canada? In the 1990s I used to joke with others about entering Canada and stating when asked “reason for entering Canada?” responding “political asylum”. I always answered “tourism”, and the Candian customs folks just waved me on. Back then the border was that porous. I never even thought back then entering Canada would be a problem. I didn’t have a US passport. Just a MI driver’s license. The Canadians in those days let me just waltz in.
Today, I’d never even try to enter Canada. If they let me in, I might never be able to get back home. On the other side the border was similarly porous. US customs never asked for a passport. They just waved me to pass.
I guess those were the good old days. Just go over to Canada, don’t make a jerk of yourself, and all would be OK. Today, I fear going to Canada.
I feel sorry for your sister. I remember the days where getting into Canada was never an issue. Canadian customs could have always turned me away at the Detroit/Widsor border and said “take your stinking Amercan dollars back home.” Instead, they just let me cross and exchange my stinking American dollars into Canadian ones at the frontier. (Since not all Canadian merchants wanted to accept US dollars, a pocketful of Canadian dollars worked much well on the other side.) I used to cross over to Canada with African nationals who declared so with me, and even though the had passports never were asked for them. Sad if today Canada has become that paranoid.
Bush being President isn’t the end of the world. The United States is a strong country and we’ll survive this administration. After the current administration leaves town, the rest of us will start working on fixing the damage.
I suspect that xtisme is talking about getting into Canada as in immigrating, not coming up for a vacation or a shopping trip. As far as I know, no American without a criminal record is going to have any trouble coming to Canada as a visitor, as long as they don’t try bringing a gun or anything like that. The requirements for becoming a permanent resident, on the other hand, are relatively strict.
I’ll never forget my trip to Canada in 1986. Got stopped and pulled over going both ways. Almost got excluded from entering the country because my wife was an Indian national at the time, with an Indian passport. Ironically, the Canadian guard who ordered her out of the car was a South Asian. The Canadians didn’t care that she had a U.S. green card. I was surprised that they had such an attitude problem about India. I wonder if it had anything to do with the notorious terrorist bombing of the Canadian plane to India the year before.
On the way back into the United States, we got pulled over and searched by the American guard because our two friends riding with us were African-American. They just assumed that the only reason for a multiracial group of friends traveling together was drug smuggling. Racial-profiling pinhead despots. And this was all a full 15 years before the current terrorism anxiousness began. The lesson these two incidents taught me was that officialdom hates ethnic and racial diversity, treats mixed groups with suspicion. Don’t you dare leave your little identity cubbyhole and associate with others. Stay within the narrowly defined little boundaries that the small-minded have set for you.
My father was doing a State Department tour in Brazil during the election. He was near retirement and he said that if Bush was reelected, he would stay in Brazil and not return to the US after retirement. He is now due to retire in a few months and is currently looking for property in Rio. He meant it.
We have enough quiters in Canada as it is. Why would we want a bunch of whiners who can’t wait until the next election to sort things out? Sorry, I forgot they’d probably vote Liberal.
And you are correct, we don’t have enough accupunturists and herbalists. You can’t have enough accupuncturists and herbalists, after all. Why sometimes in the middle of night I have a craving for someone to stick a needle in my butt because I’m a little low on ‘che’ at the time and I can’t find an accupuncturist open at that time of night for the life of me. And where would I get my powdered panda horn to help with my er’ ah… problem, if not from the local herbalists. Yep, both valued and necessary professions that I’m sure are high on Canada immigration’s list of wanted job categories.
I know a guy that’s refusing to go back to the states untill Bush leaves. He’s currently teaching in China, and said that because of Bush, he won’t move back home for a while. Of course this guy left the States back when the internet bubble burst during the 90’s. He seems the typical expat, so I’m not going to loose any sleep in regards to him.
Chappachula’s original post was sarcastic and demeaning. But I’ll reply to his/her statements anyways.
Did anyone seriously say that the world would come to an end? no
Has anyone moved to Canada? of course they have.
Have I moved to Canada? No, but if I could afford to, I would.
Why would I move to Canada? Because they have more freedom and because I am frustrated that “my America” is now controlled by born-again christians who dont give a damn about the rest of us.
I’m not a left wing nut. I voted for Reagan and Bush Sr. But Bush Jr. is such a lying dumbshit it makes me sick to look at him. For the first time in my life I am not proud to be an American, thanks to Dubya, Cheney, Scumbag Rove & Company.