After car inspection/service, wheel off by 15 degrees. Clock spring likely (very bad) or mis-alignment (bad)

In My Humble Opinion
1

I went with Factual Questions even though I’d like the opinions of car mechanics.

Yesterday evening, I drove my car (2008 Toyota Aygo) from the nearby (and good-reputation) garage. They did my clutch a few months back.

I spent a lot of time on anything interior and checked the brakes and tires. In the UK, I have not yet once straight-up passed a MOT (inspection). The catalytic / CO test could fail, the exhaust seemed okay, and the Clutch was less than a few hundred miles. I even sanded and polished one of the headlight lenses, which sort of gets cataracts (yet likely would pass).

I don’t have a lift, not even ramps / hydraulic jacks or a welding kit. Those sorts of issues have dogged me in the past: Pay the man or salvage the car due to the bill. These are all 80s cars bought for under £1,500.

A couple of months ago, I noticed the right signal needed more and more coaxing (to the point of having to hold it in place with my finger). A little google/youtubing showed that the corrosion of the contacts is very common, so you need to replace what they call a “stallk” on the left. I thought I had all the lights working, yet I did not test the so-called ‘fog light’ in the back. At best, it’s like mounting a little flashlight on the back of the car so you have 1/10th second more before you get slammed from a car behind you in the fog.

I’ve used it once, till I saw how useless it is. So never thought to check it with the signals, brake lights, reverse, etc…

And that’s what failed. The switch didn’t indicate on the dash, the light didn’t go on, and they concluded the stalk I got off eBay was faulty. Okay, though they paid about the same price, “buy cheap, buy twice.”

As most mechanics know, to replace the stalks, the airbags and horn need to be disconnected, along with the plastic shroud surrounding the steering wheel. And before you remove the steering wheel, there is an item called the “clock spring,” which mainly signals the tires to turn and how far they can travel. All the guides I had seen said to use a Sharpie to mark its location in relation to the steering wheel. Mess that up, and noticeably, the wheel is at an angle, and the radius of turning will be different between full turning left and right. Not so noticeable is the airbag connection. Go too far, and it will go, poof

There was some suspension stuff done to make more money. That, too, could change the position of the steering wheel from horizontal when going straight.

Both situations suck. Steering wheels should be horizontal (and the logo upright). The garage will check it tomorrow. They can do a really quick “let’s just rotate the steering wheel,” yet that doesn’t fix the turning radius/airbag exploding. There is some negligence (IMO) in any case. I will try not to use any legal terms.

This is bad, correct?

What were you THINKING?
2

This all sounds like pretty minor stuff for an 80s car bought for under £1,500.

It’s pretty easy to center the steering wheel, and 15 degrees is not that far off when it typically takes 1.5 full rotations (540 degrees) to turn fully left or right. I’ve had alignments done where they forget to center the steering wheel and it’s off by that much. So I’d have them center the steering wheel and maybe ask them about the clock spring.

The airbag is a different issue. An airbag going off in your face can cause an accident or severely injure you. But driving around with an airbag that old was a gamble even before they worked on the car. (And incidentally, 80s cars didn’t typically have airbags. Driver-side only airbags didn’t start showing up until the early 90s.)

3

Thanks.

I will tell them I am nearly positive it’s the clock spring. I don’t think my Sharpie lines can be used, yet getting that set right - and if they have to push it outside to let me see it in progress (insurance issues). Or they can record it to their phones. Clock spring or bad wheel alignment, they fucked up and no way am I going to keep driving a car with a wheel off kilter like that.

ETA (for anyone): The garage has a good reputation and the clutch is fine. Yet, if they assume a position of “it’s only a little tilted” do I just tell them to put things back exactly the same way and pursue litigation after finding a master mechanic who would agree (with me)?"

I wouldn’t even expect a garage to say “Oops” if they forgot to tighten the lug nuts and your wheel comes off five miles away. I would prefer this garage express an iota of “that is not good” and fixes it right.

ETA2: Would my sharpie lines from last month still be accurate and usable? Along with that, if the sharpie lines are, let’s say a little bit 15 degrees apart will someone just fix it right?

4

I think you misunderstand what the clock spring is. It has nothing to do with the actual steering of the wheels. It’s an electrical component that allows the controls on the steering wheel to continuously keep contact regardless of the angle of the wheel.

In vehicle steering systems, a clock spring or clockspring is a spiral-wound special rotary electrical conductor which allows a vehicle’s steering wheel to turn while maintaining the connection between the airbag mounted in the wheel and/or the vehicle’s horn and other devices, and the vehicle’s electrical system. The clockspring is located between the steering wheel and the steering column.

If your steering wheel is misaligned, I can only think of two things to cause that.

For one, the alignment can be bad, either from an impact or from a clueless worker setting the length on the links wrong on one or both sides. You’d need a fresh alignment to fix this.

Alternately, the same unobservant worker put the wheel back on the wrong spline of the steering column. In this case, someone needs to pop the wheel off and rotate it the right number of teeth to line up straight

5

Every video I saw about replacing the stalk said to use something like a sharpie to note where the steering wheel meets the clock spring. I used a unique marking on the clock spring itself, both at exactly 6 o’clock. The first time I put the airbag back on I neglected to realign them (you need to turn the steering wheel to get at two screws - one on each side - of the shrouds. And the wheel was even more angled than now. Duh. I put everything back in place exactly and the wheel was once again horizontal till yesterday.

I suppose I could have rotated just the steering wheel and called it a day, yet everything I’d seen or read said the positioning of the wheel and clock must remain the same.

It’s getting dark now, yet before I bring it to the garage, I can loosen the airbag and see where my sharpie line is. If I have to remove the airbag, I always disconnect the negative battery terminal and have the key out. I’ve heard some say as long as the key isn’t in the accessory position, you’re okay. And perhaps the worst that can happen if you forget that, is the dashboard will show “bad/missing airbag” or something that only someone with whatever those coders are called can reset. I’m not taking chances.

Unless these guys are going to say they really suck at wheel alignment, realigning the steering wheel and clock is the fix.

6

Yeah, the clock spring doesn’t “do” anything. It is just a spiral wire that feeds power to the steering wheel for the airbag. When the instructions state to maintain the angular relationship they are assuring the steering wheel is properly clocked. You are off by one tooth on the spline that the wheel slides onto.

7

I mean, sure, yeah. That’s shorthand for making sure the wheel goes back on the same spline as original. Mark the most visible thing with a “this way up” indicator since it’s damn hard to see and align the splines. But if the clock spring was inadvertently moved, or if the steering column moved a little while the wheel was removed, all bets are off.

Additionally, if you marked the clock spring, put the wheel back on, weren’t happy, then came home to do it again, if your front wheels weren’t in exactly the same position, then the mark will be wrong. Been a while since I took a steering wheel off, but my memory of things is that the clock spring housing does not rotate relative to the column, so if you aren’t exactly in the same straight ahead position the 2nd time you try to remount the wheel, the marks don’t mean much.

8

Just watched a couple videos that I’m sure I watched a month ago. Both guys seemed to want to keep the clock spring in the same place; maybe not to the millimeter but reasonably eyeballing it. And should it rotate clockwise at all, make sure you rotate it counter-clockwise to the same spot.

They definitely all wanted to mark the steering wheel with the shaft. I may have gone an extra step by trying to keep all three in line. So perhaps precise positioning of the clock spring isn’t required - just don’t let it turn much.

I remember having to find a 19mm socket for the steering wheel - bigger than the 17mm lug nuts and larger than any set including my Makita. One of the (video) guys even bought a new bolt for the steering.

I am still irked at paying £146 for a new stalk just for the useless rear fog bulb. I may even be a bit skeptical now if it really was a loose wire or something - yet to diagnose that you’re basically installing a new one.

It’s definitely shoddy and unacceptable work to just bolt the steering wheel on after both removing it and doing a wheel alignment. This ain’t horseshoes and hand grenades, and they better own up to it or I’ll repeat this paragraph to them. After they mess with 19mm bolts. Using a torque wrench on that or is the wheel going to come off in my hand in a month?

9

Are you sure they did the alignment correctly?

10

The car doesn’t pull to one side. I suppose when I drive my wife to work I can try letting go and seeing what it does. There’s some commercial areas where I can do so safely.

In New York I could just drive straight and see if my tracks overlapped. It almost never snows this far south and it’s a demolition derby if 1/2" falls even up near the M4 (Bristol to London Motorway).

Any other ways? I’m definitely reporting this company to the DVLA and sucks. but 1 star them on google.

What has me really angry now is in this car, the underneath of the lower shroud has a tiny screw that is very difficult to remove. I usually use my wife’s mirror and it still takes long to remove and longx2 to put back in. It doesn’t seem to really hold anything up, yet it was there for some reason.

They did not put it back in. Steering wheel: Close enough. Difficult screws: literally screw them.

11

Right. I had the clock spring fail on a previous vehicle, and the effect was that the horn, cruise control, and whatever other electronic buttons were on the steering wheel all stopped working. I don’t think it had any effect on the air bag as the air bag warning light did not come on.

Speaking of air bags, it’s worth pointing out that do-it-yourself work on the steering wheel is potentially very dangerous because of the explosive air bag in there, which could cause serious injury. I would leave any such work to professionals.

12

That is why I disconnect the negative battery terminal. This garage apparently does not subscribe to that precaution as the time and radio stations are all intact.

Furthermore, there is a small screw on the underside of the steering shroud. It is very difficult to remove, requires a mirror and putting it back in is even harder. I don’t know what it does structurally, there are larger screws above. Yet someone put it there. It’s mentioned in all the videos.

That screw is missing now. Probably drilled out. I am going to have the alignment checked independently. I had a 10AM appointment and just emailed them saying I’ll be there at 8:30 open and want to speak to the owner.

I am to the point that one more “screw”-up (pun intended) will make it worth £75 for small claims court.

ETA: I also added that all of this can be done outside where I can witness it. So no “insurance” excuses. We’ll have to see how that goes. They can make a video otherwise.

13

The physical alignment of the wheels can be correct, but if they didn’t balance the threads on the tie rods correctly, the car can be tracking but the rack is not centered.

Check that this way: Drive a few feet on a flat sure making sure that you’re going dead straight regardless of the steering wheel position. Stop. Mark the top of the wheel in its current position with tape or something. Turn the wheel all the way to the left, counting turns. Return the steering wheel to the start position. Turn the wheel all the way to the right, counting turns.

If the number of turns is the same both directions: the steering wheel is on wrong.

If the number of turns is different one direction to the other, the rack isn’t centered.

14

Sorry, I missed that you explicitly said in your OP that the vehicle in question is actually a 2008 Toyota Aygo. I must have gotten confused when later in your post you were talking about dealing with “80s cars bought for under £1,500” in the present tense.

15

Well, this is fraud, and if performed, shoddy and lazy work on a car. Sorry if the amount of money doesn’t quite ring your bell for “Why do you give a shit,” but there we are. I do. When your Audi gets fucked with, I’ll consider it just as bad, even if you think it’s worse. This cost just short of £500, and as of now, I am not sure they did one fucking thing.

This is something I have never heard of. In my talk with the owner, if this fails either way, I’ll mention the “I drove on a flat” test; it may mean something.

Yet I appreciate any DIYs I can have in my pocket tomorrow morning, that is good.

So the invoice:
“Near Side Front Bottom Arm” was excessively worn. As I said, I couldn’t ramp or lift the car and tap every suspension part, so fine. Yet to replace that, the “Anti-roll bar was seized, so that had to be cut and replaced.” I have never heard roll bar mean anything on the bottom of the car, so fine.

The indicator stalk, which I had recently replaced, is where flags are thrown. Okay, so in the UK you cannot pass a MOT without the equivalent of a small flashlight (I mean torch) on the back of your car (fog light). Not the front. Just one white light on the back. The “Don’t rearend me in the fog light”. To my shame, I did not test it, and I am now very skeptical that anything (outside of a fuse or perhaps wire - they said the bulb was good).

My “case,” as it were, is that a really stoned or inept mechanic drilled out a screw that be of monumental importance or none, yet I spent 90 minutes removing and returning it to whatever purpose it holds. They drilled it out. The “no need” screw. At least no charge for that. And after possibly doing a wheel alignment (almost always necessary with front-end driving components) they slapped the steering wheel back on haphazardly and, for all I know, smoked another big spleef. Maybe their second.

Letting a car out of your garage with an off kilter wheel us negligent and they better own up to it. And I demanded that fucking screw be restored.

I will try out
So the "

16

No idea what my coda meant. Maybe something from the top. Thanks for the DIY tips and any other ideas. The owners a nice guy and I hope he doesn’t think I’m irate for irrational reasons, like the car being 18 years old.

17

My first post: 2008 Toyota Aygo. Sorry for confusing you with 4 digit numbers.

But no worries, I’ll be calling Scotland Yard soon.

18

Cheers, mate.

19

Yes, I acknowledged that before your latest screeds:

But again, you were the one talking about 80s cars in the present tense in your OP for some reason, which confused the issue.

20

Apologies for saying you own an Audi. My father had one (in the 80s!) and it was a nice enough car (no BMW) that cost a lot to fix. But damn in the UK they have such a reputation for attracting awful drivers.

Here’s the opposite of what I thought you were saying: I worked with a guy who was saving up to buy a 1980 Ford Escort for £30,000. “Some kind worked engine?” - “No”. “Stick - how many gears” - “4”. Totally stock. A+ condition, the kind “A litttle old lady drives to church on Sundays.”

MOT’s like in most states (certainly NY) are too cheap to pay the bills for a shop, so they always tend to want to find something. I’m not going to bring my car into a garage and say the useless rear fog light failed me and I got rear-ended by a Rav4 doing 90 in pea soup fog. Last year it was the rear seat belts that didn’t retract to standards. Someone here told me unused belts get a bit sticky and this year I passed with some bicycle teflon oil they are like new, for the people who never sit in my backseat and even I have a problem reaching the handle and getting out. But that’s a PIT thread about how the garages in the UK see the American coming and if headlight fluid is the last thing left, that’ll be £300.

Tomorrow I tell a businessman that his workers represent him and they are inept (or smokin’ da weed) or whatever, yet there is no excuse for drilling out pesky screws and not putting the wheel on right.