My boss tells me that using -wards (afterwards, onwards, towards, etc.) is never correct. (Unless you’re British, presumably.) Is this true?
He also says that you can no longer say “bananas, apples and oranges” and have that be correct, which seems to be better backed by evidence. It’s at least true for legal documents, they always contain “bananas, apples, and oranges”.
While I’m on the subject, where can I go (besides here) to answer questions like these? It’d be nice if there were a grammar/punctuation quiz I could take to learn what I’ve been doing wrong. We’ve all had bad teachers at some point, and we all think we know how to use these things correctly.
Spaniard here, was taught British English but somehow I’ve managed to speak mostly US English.
The “, and” is a huge no-no. The commas should be there only when there is not a conjunction (like “or” or “and”). Sometimes people use commas as “breathe here marks” but that’s actually incorrect (although I do it sometimes, when the clauses are all multi-word).
The -ward and -wards, I was taught, is a matter of cacophony. The words with and without the -s are always equivalent; you use one or the other depending on which one sounds better, which in turn depends on what’s behind it.
“He ran toward the street” is harder to pronounce, at least to me, than “he ran towards the street”. Therefore, in that instance I’d use towards.
In English, unlike French, there is no Governing body for spelling and grammar. Now, it’s mostly usuage. So, if a lot of dudes use it that way- and the meaning is clear- it’s not “wrong”. Now, of course if you work for a company and they say they’ll use the Chicago Manual of Style- then for that company, that manual is “correct”. However, outside, it’s no more correct that anything else.
These online dictionaries accept “afterwards”:
None didn’t.
I can’t see any meaning problem between “bananas, apples and oranges” as opposed to “bananas, apples, and oranges”. In a long list, certainly the extra comma will help, thus it’s better. But in a list 3 items long, it makes no real difference.
There are general grammar and style references, but your particular employer may choose a particular one as the guide they follow, especially if you are in a field that requires writing or publishing. The debate about that last comma rages on, and I don’t think you will find a definite answer.
Why? In many cases it is necessary to ensure that the meaning is clear, although sometimes its use can introduce ambiguity. See here for more details of the debate. Personally, I prefer to use the extra comma.
Dead Cat is right. Use- or don’t use- the serial comma when it adds or detracts from the meaning.
That Wiki cites gives a good axample where the comma adds to the meaning: ““My favourite types of sandwiches are BLT, ham, peanut butter and jam and cream cheese.” This is ambiguous because “jam” may be paired with either “peanut butter” or “cream cheese”, or all three ingredients can be grouped together. A comma after “jam” can clarify this sentence: “My favourite types of sandwiches are BLT, ham, peanut butter and jam, and cream cheese.””
And one where it detracts from the meaning:
*Use of the serial comma can introduce ambiguity, in particular where the last noun phrase but two in the list is singular.
Consider “They went to Oregon with Betty, a maid, and a cook.” The presence of the last comma creates the possibility that Betty is a maid, reasonably allowing it to be read either as a list of two people or as a list of three people, context aside. On the other hand, removing the comma leaves the possibility that Betty is both a maid and a cook, so in this case neither the use nor the avoidance of the serial comma resolves the ambiguity.*
So, use the comma when it helps remove abiguity. Don;t use it when it add’s ambiguity. The rest of the time- either way.
No, it isn’t. The serial comma is purely a matter of style. Generally, newspapers eliminate the comma before “and” and “or”; this is probably a throwback to the hot type days and a way to save space. But it’s never been wrong to write “apples, oranges, and pears” or to write “apples, oranges and pears.”
The comma is often preferred, since it can cause confusion if left out (notably, the supposed book dedication, “I want to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God.”). But if you avoid such constructions and use things consistently, no language expert will object.
The serial comma, or Oxford comma, provokes intense, almost pit-worthy debates on editing message boards. Some say it should be used only when it is required to eliminate confusion, whereas others say that since it is never “wrong” (it never adds confusion) it should always be used, for consistency (and to eliminate potential confusion that you might not perceive).
Many style guides recommend the serial comma, so it certainly can’t be considered “wrong”. However, as a child I was certainly taught that it was wrong. That’s just one in a long list of things that I was taught were wrong, that really aren’t. Others are the prohibition against beginning sentences with “And”, “But” or “Because”.
Yup, RealityChuck is right. Definitely a matter of style. I majored in journalism, and my first few jobs relied on AP Style. In my current job, we (for some inexplicable reason) switched from AP Style to the University of MN Style, which is a mishmash of AP and Chicago, with some random stuff all their own.
Anyway, we switched to using the serial comma, which everyone hates. It lasted a month before we switched back again, but at any rate, they’re both “correct.” The main thing is to be consistent.
Come on, Nava it’d be good idea if you’re going to make such strong claims to cite your source. Otherwise, soften your conviction with an appropriate qualifier.
From the Chicago Manual of Style, 15th edition:
From the British perspective, Cambridge seems thoroughly mixed in its opinions:
*Onwards (mainly UK) (US mainly Onward)
Forward (also Forwards)
Backwards (US also Backward)*
I guess the main conclusion to draw from this is that there’s no hard-and-fast rule (note that all these refer solely to the adverb)
(note that all these refer solely to the adverb)