The Forrester novel Lord Hornblower has Commodore Hornblower taking passage on a brigantine (admittedly much smaller than even a sloop). As a courtesy, Hornblower is given the cabin of the vessel’s master (a mere lieutenant): six feet by six by four feet high- the largest private space aboard ship. The novel mentions that despite their size the brigs are able to be credible ships of war, at the cost of subjecting the crew to conditions that a wise farmer would not keep his livestock in.
Thanks. That seems an odd place to draw the line to me, but the entire era was an odd mixture of honourable restraint in some circumstances and a more modern total war style in others.
Well, I know nothing of sailing but if I was offered a chance to sail on a ship old style I’d probably take it for the experience. All and all the experience sounds like back breaking work and under uncomfortable conditions. I wonder…did those sailors of the past have cats aboard to deal with the rats, or was that considered bad luck for some reason?
I think the shortage of explosive and incendiary weapons on board wooden sailing ships had at least as much to do with self-preservation as with honorable restraint.
I visited the Victory in Portsmouth Harbor several years ago and was surprised at how cramped the below deck spaces were. On the gun decks I could stand upright only by standing between the deck beams. I’m 6’ 2" but I suppose a normal sized young male of the late 1700 and early 1800 could move around in the fighting spaces and working spaces without too much worry about caving in the top of his skull. The spaces below the water line were another matter entirely. The orlop and cockpit where the wounded were treated and where Nelson died could not have had more that four feet of clearance below the beams and maybe five feet between them. I felt like I was doubled over to walk through the area. The captain’s cabin, the admiral’s quarters and the ward room seemed pretty spacious and well lighted although the overhead clearance was probably not six feet. The ward room, the junior officers and warrant officers cabins off the wardroom, were probably about eight feet by six feet and constructed of very thin wooden panels. The Victory was of the largest class of warships and had the most generous accommodations. This may explain why King William (who was himself a naval officer) authorized the Royal Navy to drink the Sovereign Toast seated.
Ships like the Victory were expected to stay at sea for six months at a time without touching land. 900 officers, rating and marines could not have lived on her without the strictest order and discipline. Just the problem of human waste would have rendered her uninhabitable in very short order without the rigid enforcement of sanitation discipline. Realize that unless you were and officer or a warrant officer you never had and privacy, and even then not much.
I was trying to remember how it was spelled. Thanks and the correct spelling is really forecastle.
A lot of work, yes, but there are moments that are truly amazing. Of course, this thread is mostly about fighting ships, and I imagine getting pressed into service and the chance of getting shot would take a lot of the romance out of it.
I know of one ship that might take you, and she already has a cat.
Duh. This was, of course, Cochrane himself when in command of HMS Speedy, a two-masted sloop with which he captured, burned or wrecked more than 50 ships including a 32-gun frigate in a year and 3 months. The floorspace of his cabin apparently measured six feet by four, and since it contained a table there was essentially no space. Apparently he had great trouble even sitting with his feet under the table, it was so cramped.
As you said, the model for Jack Aubrey in the book (not the film) Master and Commander as the Master and Commander of the Sophie leading up to his battle with the Cacafuego.
Worth noting that low headroom was common on land as well as on ships. Many a time I’ve bashed my head when standing up at the Barley Mow. Even Mrs Marcus brushes the lowest of the beams and she’s just 5 ft 2 in!
Ships had apparenlt lowered cabin heights in the age of sail. I visited the MAYFLOWER (replica-the original was built ca. 1600 AD)-and the captain’s “Great Cabin” was about 6’ height (I am 5’ 11", and I didn’t bump my head.
Dunno for sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the replica was “scaled up,” at least in its interior layout, to make it easier for visitors.
If said replica was on display in the US, I wouldn’t be surprised if it was done to curtail liability claims in case some inattentive visitor whanged his/her head on an overhead beam or something like that. It’s a major PITA to defend liability claims, even when one isn’t ultimately liable.
That’s assuming that the replica was “scaled up”; it’s possible it may not have been.
Cheers,
bcg
Some of the ships were very fast a frigate could hit 12-14 knots and clippers 18-20. Victory not so much 6-8 tops.
FWIW, the Wiki entry on the original Mayflower states:
It may well be that the ‘replica’ is more of a ‘realistic embodiment of best available guesses’ than a clone of the original.
Note that not “anyone” was liable for impressment, only sailors. (And in those days sailros had a very distinct look). And the Army also resorted to impressment. So did we- we called it “the Draft”.
You didn’t need cats as long as you had midshipmen aboard.
Just bumping this up because I have found a wonderful video that sets the mdd for this entire thread.
