I can picture Radcliffe helping the others escape even if he remembers that he cannot himself leave because of the fatal injuries his body has suffered, and that’ll be how the character and actor leave the show.
I wonder if he’ll know. He obviously set up the Framework so he could enter and leave at will, knowing it’s not real, but did AIDA keep it that way?
When they first teased “The Doctor”, was anyone else hoping it was Daisy’s dad?
I got so excited for about .2 seconds
See how well that worked with Ward. 
Heh, okay, but that’s not really Ward, in the context of the show, just an improbable simulation.
S4 E17 - “Identity and Change”
This was an OK episode, and advanced the plot a bit, but also muddied the waters in a way “fake world” plots often do. I like the characterizations of Mack and Coulson, and especially Mace. They were true to their nature in the real world with obvious changes. May is still a bit of a mystery, but Aida, excuse me, Madame Hydra and The Doctor have little relation to their real world counterparts. The whole plotline of The Doctor knowing something about the other world, but getting incomplete information from Madame Hydra is confusing and unsatisfying. How much control does she have over people’s feeling and thoughts in the Framework? Is she an independent entity from Aida in the real world?
Things I liked:
[ul]
[li]The Doctor’s line about crossing the universe for MH, and the call back later[/li][li]Mace being in charge SHIELD in hiding, doing good and being a hero[/li][li]The reference to Billy Koenig :)[/li][li]Coulson’s soap theory[/li][/ul]
Things I didn’t like:
[ul]
[li]Are they setting up a Madam Hydra vs Aida conflict? That would be awful.[/li][li]A squad of agents along with the two most important people in the Framework couldn’t stop Jemma, Coulson, and Ward from leaving the island?[/li][li]The trick by May to reveal Daisy as an agent, not believable[/li][li]Everything with Fitz, it’s not good role for that actor[/li][li]Killing Agnes[/li][li]Mack can just find a hidden SHIELD base that he doesn’t know about?[/li][/ul]
Random thoughts…
I hope they explore the question of memory vs. personality. Since the memory is only part of the brain and people like to (and are often told to) go with their first impulses wouldn’t the real people tend to “revert to type”? Or contrariwise, if the dead people can live on in the framework, does that mean people in the framework are merely copies and can be treated as separate individuals?
Do you die IRL if you die in the framework? There seems to be an assumption. If not, why not just kill everyone and have done?
I hope they don’t end the arc without Ward explaining why he abandoned Hydra and joined the resistance.
And finally, is this another Joss Whedon trope, “introduce a romance and then wreck it” story? Like some relationships version of a disaster movie? Can’t we have nice things?
I actually disagree with a lot of Telemark’s assessment.
I thought it was a phenomenal episode, culminating in the scene at the Doctor’s place. The tension between everyone was great, the acting was great (props to Jemma) and it punctuated an interesting take on who is really in control. I will admit that May somehow knowing Daisy’s whole back story is convenient, and Mack magically knowing the secret hideout’s location is even MORE convenient. But those are minor plot points to what I thought was an excellent episode.
I don’t follow ratings that closely anymore, but I constantly fear for the cancellation of the show because it’s been consistently good for a good while now.
That is, like, a defining Whedon element, in my experience.
Yes, they explicitly said that if you die in the Framework you die for real. It was right before sending Daisy and Jemma intro the Framework.
He said he joined the resistance because he saw Skye’s test results that she’s a potential Inhuman. He also changed the results in Hydra’s database. He’s trying to bring down Hydra to protect her.
Did anyone else hum the imperial march when AIDA and Fitz walked out of the jet?
I’m assuming that May got that information from AIDA. And Mack didn’t go to the hideout, he went to a resistance dead drop and got picked up. Based on his character so far, it seems like he at least knows something about the resistance. Maybe he’s former Shield who retired to protect his daughter?
Yes, I did that exact thing. Get outta my head!
After a rocky start last episode, Jemma has readily adapted to the new [virtual] reality. She kept her cover and didn’t unnecessarily reveal details to the NPCs, even when Ward threatened to shoot Fitz. She only broke when Fitz did something completely out of character by shooting Agnes, and even then retained enough of her wits to run.
Daisy, on the other hand, kept her heart on her sleeve and totally folded when Mack fed her a line she wanted to hear. It was a Hydra interrogation room, shouldn’t she have expected it to be bugged? Skye totally deserved to get caught.
Mallory Jansen deserves some recognition for playing two completely different characters in the same scene, Agnes and Madame Hydra, both of which are completely different from her main character, AIDA.
So what do you think is going on with Ophelia/Madame Hydra and Aida? The Shakespearian name implies a few things about her love for Fitz and betraying his trust and love by lying to him. even though the name is taken from the comics and not original here. It’s not clear what her plan is for the real world and how it differs from Aida’s plan for the real world. Forcing Fitz to kill Agnes is a bit of matricide as well as perhaps representing her desire to kill Aida?
Anyone understand what Project Looking Glass is about? Aida shouldn’t need it to get out of the Framework; she’s already outside. Unless she somehow got trapped in there, but that doesn’t seem to hold water. Is she looking at how to get her versions of Fitz and May and others out in the real world to help her build a new world order IRL?
Last time we saw Aida in the real world she said she wanted to feel emotions, but didn’t say anything about being treated as a tool. Radcliffe did say things like that but she did she show signs of taking offense. Is she monitoring the Framework and keeping tabs on what Ophelia is doing? Is she manipulating what Ophelia is doing?
Lots of potentially interesting questions, but my fear is that it’s going to end up not holding together and get very messy. But I’ll probably still watch.
This is what I’m guessing. Clearly she has plans for the real world after what she did to the Russian. I’m guessing the Looking Glass will permanently erase their minds and transfer the framework mind back to the real body.
Why are folks thinking of AIDA and Madame Hydra as separate characters? The way she talked to Radcliffe, she certainly seemed to be speaking as AIDA. I had assumed that it was AIDA, in the Framework, just like Radcliffe and Daisy and Jemma. With the power and emotional connections that she could not have in the real world.
I probably shouldn’t have said “character”. Rather, the actress’s characterization of AIDA, with her robotic affect, is completely different from how she portrays Madame Hydra, who is a more traditional evil mastermind. Both are different from Agnes, who is (was) 100% tragic human. The latter also sported Mallory’s natural Australian accent.
I don’t see them as different, either. Madame Hydra seems exactly like AIDA (but an AIDA who has been around humans and learned from them more than the early sightings of AIDA) to me.
“Lies. That’s all she gave us. Beaten to within an inch of her life. Nevertheless, she persisted.”
I find it hard to believe that turn of phrase is a coincidence.
I have to admit, I’m impressed by the way they continually find ways to bring back Grant Ward. Guy has more lives than a cat.
Trip!
I wonder if Mac will even leave the Framework. They’re working hard to show that Jemma is coming to see this as more than 1s and 0s, so maybe she’ll give him the choice to stay and be with Hope, and she’ll keep the Framework going in some isolated server instead of turning it off.
I watched the end scene a few times, and I think RL Aida was surprised to see that Jeffrey was dead, implying that she and Madame Hydra are separated isolated entities.
I got pretty close - it sounds like when his parents separated, he originally cut off his father completely, while now he maintained a relationship with him, or went with him instead of his mother.