Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D Season 1 Episode 2: 0-8-4 (Spoilers)

Cafe Society
101

I personally liked the second episode more than the pilot, although I seem to be somewhat unusual in that. I found the dialog less cringe-worthy this time round, and actually chuckled at some of the jokes. In the pilot, I thought the Whedon-esque one-liners fell totally flat (ironic, since apparently Whedon wrote the pilot but not this episode!)

I still like Coulson a lot, and I like Ming Na Wen’s character too. The few seconds of interaction between them in the cockpit was probably my favorite moment of the episode. The rest of the team, I have to agree, still feels considerably less substantial. I would personally consider Generic Handsome Guy (still don’t know his name) part of the kiddies, frankly, despite his skill at combat.

I thought it was pretty broadly hinted that Coulson knew, or suspected, that she wasn’t trustworthy. In the scene where she tries to seduce him, he seems totally unsurprised (although saddened) by her betrayal. He also later makes a comment about the group needing a common enemy to unite against to truly become a team. Which to me seems a shout-out to a similar plot point in the Avengers movie… which also, to some degree, engineered by SHIELD higher-ups. (Especially given the revelation that, you know, Coulson wasn’t even dead at all!)

People also expressed surprise at the show’s seeming support for SHIELD over Rising Tide. To me, it seems pretty clear that the show is setting up a conflict between these two ideologies. I don’t think we’re supposed to believe that Skye’s beliefs are 100% wrong. In this episode, we see her given an earnest and impassioned speech about the power of “the people” working together (100s of 1 percents) and it’s not treated dismissively–it’s how the team gets out of their predicament, to some extent. The Avengers movie itself obviously deals with this issue as well: the government’s protection vs. the public’s “right to know” and the power of an organized public. Tony Stark is profoundly suspicious of SHIELD’s motivations and in fact the way his suspicions are proven correct goes some way towards disillusioning Steve–Captain America himself.

Maybe I’m giving the show too much credit, but I think it’s a little early yet to suggest there’s no depth here. It’s only the second episode, after all!

I also thought it was funny that Evil Sexy Latina* mocks Coulson’s team of sexy young things as part of a midlife crisis. In the earlier thread about the first episode, that was a major complaint, as was the fact that we don’t see Skye doing anything–and here in this episode, she complains that she doesn’t know why she’s here or what she’s good for. Seemed weirdly meta.

  • Seriously, there’s a trope I would be glad to never see again.
102

I thought that he trusted her up until the point where she tried to seduce him just a little too hard. I’d have to assume that even on a show this spastically plotted he would have NOT given the Peruvians full access to the plane if he didn’t trust her earlier.

103

Yes, Ming-Na agrees as well, that’s why she makes agree to be Skye’s SO. Time to grow up.

104

I don’t think Coulson sees the RT is wrong - just naive (which Ward is more blunt about). As someone said, Tommy Lee Jones’s quote from MIB applies: “A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals, and you know it.” Coulson is letting her in to use her as a proxy to communicate SHIELD’s good intentions - or at least their rationale for doing what they do - hoping to bring the group around. Which is, ironically, naive of Coulson - such groups aren’t formed by reason, and so aren’t amenable to it. Just before sweeps, when Skye becomes less fanatical and tries to convince the Rising Tide to not release some highly volatile info she leaks to them, she’ll be branded a traitor and sell-out then be cut-off. When the rest of the team find out she was the source of the leak, they’ll feel betrayed a dump her (for more emotional impact she’ll have bonded with FitzSimmons and gotten close to Agent Ward despite their differences by then), and likely Coulson will be pulled as team leader. They’ll spend the back 9 episodes of the season trying to re-integrate the team.

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Overall, I’m liking the show so far, despite the (often valid) criticisms that can and have been leveled at it.

I definitely agree that the plot of Ep 2 was WAY too formulaic and predictable.

Regarding Skye and RT; Coulson knows what’s going on; he’s probably counting on Skye to be an unwitting source of misinformation to RT in order to flush them out or something. No way is Coulson so naive as to not see a potential betrayal coming.

Coulson: “They’re that good.” Maybe eventually, but the Leverage team would spank these guys without breaking a sweat right now.

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And leave the SHIELD team happy with the cooperation in the bargain.

107

In a comic I’d expect the superweapon to be able freeze the oceans or cause earthquakes or something, if not “control the fabric of time and space” or some equally grandiose and melodramatic thing. Here, it was a generic ray-gun (that maybe could explode too?) and they just literally said “tesseract… WWII… Captain America” to tie it in to the movies. It just felt very tacked on to me.

And moreover, they already referenced Captain America in the first episode. I’m hoping they expand the universe a bit instead of just continuously referencing the same half-a-dozen films.

108

As evidenced by this thread the writers are walking a fine line. They would like to please the comic or movie fans, but at the same time they want to create a show that can appeal to everyone. Over two episodes, I think they have done pretty well. Plenty of references to the show and comics, but nothing you couldn’t follow along with if you hadn’t been aware of either.

What I think we are going to get with this show is a group of regular people who know about that extraordinary things that occur in their universe. Once in a while we will get glimpses at characters with powers, but most episodes the most we will get is a crazy bomb, or super awesome high tech gadgets. If that is how the show turns out, I am fine with it. As the season progresses we’ll learn more about the characters and they will, hopefully, grow and change in interesting ways. Then they can start playing with stories and having episodes that aren’t quite as paint by numbers as these first two have been. (I’ve still liked them, but I understand the complaint). It would be neat at some point to have an entire episode that focuses on another team maybe led by the How I Met Your Mother actress. Or an episode told entirely from the point of view from a Rising Tide or HYDRA agent. But, for now, I think the episodes will focus on the team, and I am fine with that.

I’m sorry I got the Rebels and Army messed up in my OP! Thanks for the correction. I had it right in my head, but my fingers didn’t listen.

109

Well, they referenced Iron Man and Thor in the second ep, too…“Stark is technically a consultant” and the thing about the last object they investigated being an “interesting” hammer. I think the thing to remember is that, at least early on, they’re trying to draw in fans of the movies who may not be familiar with the rest of the Marvel universe, and they’re tossing them a few references to those movies to make the impression that it’s all connected. We might get some more non-movie references here and there, but those movies are the cash cow, so I’d expect it to keep getting milked.

110

I turned it off half way through the ep. I just don’t find any of the characters (excepting the excellent Coulson) interesting. They are all so bland and vanilla.

111

But…we haven’t gotten super-awesome high tech gadgets. That’s one of my big objections. No MODOKS, no “Infinity Gauntlet” (ok, maybe that one is too high level for them), no “Evil Eye”, no “Serpent Crown”, no “Satan Claw”, no “Overkill Horn” and I could go on and on…Just a stupid laser that explodes. Marvel has a zillion super-awesome high tech gadgets they could use. Image inducers, the Eye of Cyttorak (ok, it’s magic, but so’s Thor’s hammer), and on and on and on.

Fringe did “super-awesome high tech gadgets” right. This one was just boring, IMO.

112

Yes. It was just something that goes boom. Kinda loudly, maybe. What did Fringe’s early episodes give us? An instantly solidifying gas trapping anything in a certain radius like flies in… well, amber! That’s already one interesting idea more than Agents has had so far (and it’s by far not the only one in early Fringe). (And now you’ve made me all nostalgic.)

113

Coulson recognizes the RT for what it is - there have been two references to her skills that imply this (“do you know just how rare that is”) - and he needs an ‘inside man’ - he’s fully aware that she is playing both sides at the moment and is planning ahead for how to use it for the advantage.

He’s not naive - he’s 5 steps in front.

She has skills he wants working for Sheild - Coulson is aware that she’s not the one ‘pulling the strings’ as it were.

114

Last night, I realized what’s missing from the show, and why I’m still waiting for it to “click”: nobody’s been kicked into an engine intake.

On Firefly, that was the point at which I decided it was the best show, ever. S.H.I.E.L.D hasn’t kicked anyone into an engine. I’m still enjoying the show, but it doesn’t quite yet feel like a Whedon show.

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And how much more awesome would the series be with Tommy Lee Jones in the lead? Oh, but they already used him in Captain America. Never mind…

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As a born and bred Scott - yirawhaverin… A underston them awright…:smiley:

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While I’m no expert, that’s always been the crux of SHIELD in the Marvel 'verse. We (the audience) know someone is controlling Fury, and that he’s not convinced of their motives, or even their identities. The agents we get to know believe they’re the good guys, but through Fury, the audience becomes aware that the SHIELD organization may not be on the right side.

118

I haven’t read the comics regularly since the early days, so this memory might be totally off. But somehow I got the feeling that SHIELD was the good guys during Democratic administrations and bad guys during Republican administrations. The Marvel Civil Wars era was a response to the Bush administration, and comics themselves are almost always left leaning.

SHIELD had to clean itself up after Norman Osborne was deposed, and we have a real-world Democratic president. For now I’m guessing that SHIELD really is trying to be a force for good. Though there may be a shadowy conspiracy inside the government that they’ll need to fight in secret.