Perhaps you could clarify this “oppression” that the left complains about that so many people are willing to risk their lives to subject themselves to? I’m having a really difficult time thinking of any, unless you’re the type who believes that things like government-subsidized health care will turn us into Venezuela.
Can you name another candidate like trump in modern history? One that won the primary the way he did?
How he got through the primary despite only winning a majority in one state by late april (because the other republican candidates were so busy stepping on each other’s dicks) is going to be a college class some day.
How’d they treat Bill Clinton? You remember all those sexual assault and sexual harrassment allegations against him, right?
Mostly capitalism.
Two things:
One, I said “corrupt,” not “sexist.” Don’t shift goal posts.
Two: Clinton was thirty years ago. I wasn’t old enough to vote for him the first time he ran, and I’m middle aged. The Democratic party of 1990 is not the same as the Democratic party of 2020.
Got it. So where are people are risking their lives in the name of bringing about “capitalism”? You said there are “billiions” but I still can’t think of a single place where such a thing is happening.
It’s about patriarchy. I’m caucasian and I understand you to be Asian. But you are the biggest partriarchy booster on this site. You think that there is a rainbow patriarchy to include you, but there isn’t. Patriarchy is white first and foremost.
Both sideism has deeply racist roots.
Tomato tomahto. WTF is the difference. Is one that much more acceptable to you than the other?
But fine.
So lets say trump was running against blagojevich, the guy that tried to sell obama’s seat (which seems about as clear a case of corruption as you can imagine), you would vote for trump?
So?
China?
Pretty much every communist regime in the world?
No. It’s not. Unless you are using some weird definition of patriarchy, you are incorrect.
I don’t think I’ve ever argued that men should be in charge and women should be subservient.
“Both sideism” has deeply moderate roots. I have almost this exact same conversation with conservatives who tell me both sideism has deeply communist roots.
They see communism everywhere and you see racism everywhere and you are both wrong.
In Hong Kong, those protests are for democracy, not capitalism, as is the case with opposition to any other communist regime that I know of. Where are people actually risking their lives for, specifically, capitalism?
Blagojevich? The former Democrat who was impeached by his own party and thrown out of office when his corruption was exposed? The guy who endorsed Trump and spoke at his rallies after receiving a pardon from him? That’s the guy you want to use in your hypothetical to demonstrate that Democrats are just as bad as Republicans?
Really?
This has turned into a hilarious example of a self-own by damuriajashi.
To be fair, this entire thread has.
If damuriajashi doesn’t come back, does that mean we’ve now seen all the other side has to offer? At what point is it finally acceptable to weigh and measure?
I don’t think damuri is “the other side”. They’re a side all on their own.
Yeah, we shouldn’t be suckered down the rabbit hole of demonizing all conservatives just because some people are arguing very terribly. There remain a hefty number of conservatives that are not…this, but are instead simply wildly misinformed.
There is a continuum, or put another way, a radicalization path. Not all conservatives are at the same point on that path, and many of them simply believe what they have been told - and told by people like friends and family, even. That’s the first stage, and many of them have never proceeded beyond it. They still vote republican, of course, though I personally suspect that people like this are the largest source of people who eschewed the obviously-odious Trump but still voted republican downticket.
This is not to say that these people can be ‘saved’ - once a person has an idea like this lodged into their heads, getting them to admit that their past actions were misguided and destructive is nearly impossible even if they are not getting ongoing pressure from their peers and churches to conform. But even so, not everybody on the right is…what we’ve seen here.
Unfortunately the first part of this:
Is why this:
is a bad idea.
Note I’m not singling you out personally for this. Its simply part of human nature. Humans are really really bad at reaching accurate conclusions based on what they personally experience because all of their experience is filtered through a huerisitc that tries to incorporate what they experience into what they already know/believe to be true. Its called confirmation bias.
In addition to the people who your friend met that thought that work was just too plain hard, he may have met a much larger number that worked their ass off but still needed government assistance to make ends meet but they just didn’t make an impression on him because they didn’t fit in his world view. And in particular he wouldn’t have bothered mentioning them to you because it didn’t match the argument he was making to you at the time (which i suspect was something about how bad liberals and welfare is.)
I think this also feeds into another part of the earlier discussion.
In particular, who are the elites that the right is so troubled by. They aren’t the economic elite, because those are the darlings of the right, nor are they the racial elite, since its pretty clear that the Republicans have that constituency sewn up as well. Near as I can tell the elite that they are afraid of is the educated elite. These are the people who challenge the personal anecdotal, “common sense” folk wisdom that is the basis for their view of the world, with one that is more complicated and nuanced. One that requires looking at issues from multiple perspectives, and not relying purely on personal experiences.
Now liberals aren’t immune to Confirmation bias, they are human too. But it really does seem to be endemic on the right, to the point that all news organizations that say anything that doesn’t match their world view is fake news.
If you don’t believe that North Korea had a boat full of Biden ballots offloaded into the state of Maine, or that an air conditioning repair van in Texas had 17,000 Biden ballots secretly stuffed into it (which later nobody could find)… Then you’re one of the sheeple. Or (deep breath)… You’re in on the conspiracy
I don’t think it’s the right. We didn’t lose many votes on the right. We didn’t HAVE many votes on the right to lose in the first place. It was the votes in the middle.
So, when you think your views are educated complicated and nuanced and their views are not, then they might think you are being elitist.
Frequently, these are not particularly right wing folks. Many of them voted democrat in 2012 and then voted Republican in 2016. Those folks swung the race in 2016. If we could have kept them, We would have re-elected hillary in 2020.
Like you said, this is a human condition. Both sides do it.
“Both sides do it”? This again?
The reason most of us have running water and shelter is that we look for answers. Both sides are NOT doing what trumpers are doing. The human condition is to make things better, not worse.
For what I can see, Trump supporters want it all and the heck with anyone else. It doesn’t work that way.
Clearly society has adjusted again and again. With the benefit of hindsight and a little bit better ability to see the future, we could all pull together. Trump supporters don’t want that. They follow their toddler leader to the next shiny coin that is nothing more than a distraction.
And Trump supporters are getting really screwed. By GOP policies.
Trump supporters are perhaps the most short sighted people that I have ever known.