In a current thread, a poster claimed that it was unfair to conflate ‘conservative values’ with bigotry. So I would like for conservative posters to list some mainstream conservative values that aren’t based directly bigotry and that aren’t applied in a bigoted way in practice. For example, one might claim that ‘support for the military’ is a conservative value, but would need to explain why support for the military doesn’t include support for the transgender active service members under attack by Trump, or opposition to Trumps slams on veterans like McCain. Simply saying ‘support for traditional families’ wouldn’t count, as that’s just a dog whistle for the explicitly bigoted position of denying gay people human rights. I’m genuinely curious if there is anything left in the Conservative Value book that is more than a platitude and isn’t based on being incredibly nasty to some group.
I would argue that Supply Side Economics is based upon idiocy and not bigotry.
I disagree with your premise that “support for the military” necessarily must include supporting inclusion of transgender people in the services. If you had a different example that didn’t include poisoning the well, that might be more useful.
How about “personal responsibility” as a conservative value? It’s one of mine, and it isn’t based on bigotry. If you just want to say “is so”, knock yourself out.
Regards,
Shodan
Personal responsibility is a liberal value as well, Shodan. Just come by my house someday and see how it’s done.
“Personal Responsibility” is a platitude.
Can you give me one example of Republicans holding a fellow Republican personally responsible for his or her actions? Is Trump being made to be personally responsible for his many documented instances of obstruction of justice as outlined in the Mueller report?
Shodan, is your use of ‘personal responsibility’ similar to ‘pulling yourself up by your bootstarps’, or something else?
Denial of climate change?
I would say “rugged individualism”, but as the Limbaugh quote above shows, “rugged individualism” is merely a means for old white men to whine about the differences of (minority) others.
Commitment to fiscal responsibility and balanced budgets? Well, we’ve only had that from Democrats in recent memory, so maybe they’re the real conservative party.
Climate change denial is another aspect of the basic attitude that’s also called personal responsibility: “I got mine, the hell with anyone else.” That isn’t inherently bigotry as such.
The traditional conservative approach to judicial review doesn’t seem to have any bigotry as its basis.
Of course the conservative members of the Supreme Court circa 2013 had no problem tossing aside their traditional approach in the name of bigotry in Shelby County v Holder, so I’m not sure if conservatives can still claim it.
[ul]
[li]Free speech (generally defended more by conservatives than liberals these days) has a wide variety of applications outside of social issues. You have to be able to criticize one’s government; it’s a bulwark against gradual tyranny. It’s worth noting that liberals were strongly in favor of free speech in the 1970s.[/li][li]Freedom of religion is often cited as an excuse for homophobia or whatnot, but it’s also what enables Muslims, Jews, Hindus and people of all other religions to live their way as well. Without freedom of religion, a Christian American government could ban Muslims (not just from entering the nation, but from existing, period.)[/li][li]Whether low taxation is good economic policy or not is its own debate, but it can be fairly said to have nothing to do with bigotry.[/li][li]Ditto for the **right to bear arms. **Self-defense isn’t about bigotry. In fact, after Trump got elected, a fair number of LGBT and minority Americans started buying up guns because they feared for their safety and wanted to defend themselves.[/li][li]Strong national defense (and also fighting in international wars that are worth fighting in) has nothing to do with bigotry; unless FDR’s waging of war in WWII against Nazi Germany was somehow bigoted.[/li][li]Expansion of drilling for oil (Obama once said the Republican “three-point plan for energy was drill, drill, drill”) might not be good economic or environmental policy, but it has nothing to do with bigotry. It has to do with a desire for cheaper, more plentiful oil and also wanting to reduce dependency on a volatile Middle East.[/li][/ul]
Finally, might I note, the very thread question, “What conservative values aren’t based off of bigotry?” belies a certain amount of implicit bigotry/bias in itself.
Except Trump just said that the media “writing bad” isn’t free speech.
I didn’t hear any criticism from any Republicans for that remark. So how can you say that is a conservative value? Where are they all now when freedom of speech is being attacked by the President himself?
ETA: Also freedom of religion != attempting to legislate your religious views on everyone. The latter is actually bigotry, and is what the Republicans actually do in practice. Otherwise they’d be defending satanism, islam and every other religion just as vociferously right?
Nailing down conservatism is like nailing jelly to a wall, but Russell Kirk did a pretty good job of it. We can say that modern conservatism is based on these principles. None of these principles are based on bigotry. Bigotry is and has been used by some who also believe in some of these, but also by some who don’t believe in hardly any of them, like Trump and most modern Republicans.
Kirk:
First, the conservative believes that there exists an enduring moral order.
Second, the conservative adheres to custom, convention, and continuity.
Third, conservatives believe in what may be called the principle of prescription.
Fourth, conservatives are guided by their principle of prudence.
Fifth, conservatives pay attention to the principle of variety.
Sixth, conservatives are chastened by their principle of imperfectability.
Seventh, conservatives are persuaded that freedom and property are closely linked.
Eighth, conservatives uphold voluntary community, quite as they oppose involuntary collectivism.
Ninth, the conservative perceives the need for prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions.
Tenth, the thinking conservative understands that permanence and change must be recognized and reconciled in a vigorous society.
They are fleshed out a little here: http://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/1987/pdf/hl86.pdf
Must be, because “a person should be held accountable for his actions” sure doesn’t fit.
Maybe the results would be more meaningful if we stop equating Trumpwith all conservatives and Conservatism itself.
It may not based in bigotry, but it’s a value that bigots will happily rally around because of its inherent impact on minorities.
Personal Responsibility, that bootstrappy value of doing for yourself rather than relying upon others, works wonderfully for people who have access to resources. People who lack resources have a harder time of it, not because they are bad people, but because they don’t have access to the same resources as their competitors.
You and others seem to be conflating conservatism with Trump support, or the Republican Party itself. Kind of a poisoned well there.
Well maybe some conservatives should separate themselves from Trump first? As of now he represents all of them, and almost none of them are taking issue with his words and actions.
If you want to be considered distant from Trump you must first distance yourself. I don’t see much evidence that any Republicans are having much of an issue with him or his policies, such as they are. It sounds like you want it both ways, you want the power that he helps you have, but you don’t want the responsibility of supporting it.
I’m going to make the SDMB moderator version of a “citizen’s arrest” here and declare that there is “no political bashing in GQ”. Heck, the thread TITLE is a political bash! LOL