If you are able to rebook after missing your flight, you are already in a higher class of ticket. AFAIK, never having missed a flight in deregulation times, if you are on a cheap flight and miss it… sucks to be you. if you paid for a fancy ticket that allows a do-over, well, Delta was pretty stupid to screw over a higher-paying passenger. This is why I pay as little as possible and NEVER pay for the extra room - Ms. Coulter, whom I normally wouldn’t agree with, has amply demonstrated for me why giving the airlines extra money nowadays is a waste of good dollars.
Or was Ann having a tantrum because “Comfort-plus” with an extra half-inch is not as good as Exit Row with several extra inches?
Plus reportedly she had originally booked the window seat and then changed it to a aisle seat within 24 hours. She got her window seat back, in the same row. I can’t blame Delta for trying to accommodate another higher-class passenger in this case, because she got the same level of service, just a different location.
I assume (on any plane I’ve been in) if there’s an exit row, it’s the same row on both sides - so Ann got her exit row extreme leg room. Not sure what the tantrum was about - she’s complaining about being moved to a window seat from aisle. Somehow, anyone who’s been bumped clean off the aircraft probably has little sympathy for her.
Yeah, as far as I can tell she requested an aisle seat but didn’t get it and was refunded the $30 she paid.
As to the OP this wasn’t an oversold flight as regulated by DOT. Preferred Seat is an add-on service Delta offers to specify what seat you want instead of just taking a random assignment. It wouldn’t be covered under any laws regarding oversold flights. If Delta puts a disclaimer on the reservation form that preferred seats might not be available at the time of boarding then I don’t think it violated any laws or anything in their CoC.
Are you certain the two seats had the same room? I’ve been on planes where there is a lot of difference in exit row seating. I’ve been on planes that have two exit rows back to back with different front/back and side/side spacing. If the two seats are the same, why wasn’t the other woman put in the window seat? Why move Passenger A (who has a ticket for a seat) to the window seat when Passenger B could have been put there instead?
Yeah, I think the whole Twitter tirade was overdone, but the airlines treat passengers (their customers) like cattle. I can’t mustard up much sympathy for an airline that gets some bad publicity, even if the publicity is over the top given the situation.
I’ve seen larger aircraft with a pair of emergency exits over each wing, so two exit rows, one behind each other. I don’t recall seeing a symmetrical seating arrangement (3-3 like the 3 in the photo) where one side of the exit row was different than the other.
AFAIK the extra pay was for a “comfort” seat, not a specific seat. On top of that, exit rows tend to have more leg room than generic “comfort-plus” seating. So the airline gave her what she paid for, just not the specific seat. I have not seen a flight where “I want to pay to get an aisle seat” or “I want that specific seat” was an option. Seat selection is nice to have, but not guaranteed. So she whined, and she’s been refunded the $30 for goodwill, not because the airline failed to deliver what she paid for.
I didn’t see a photo or diagram anywhere, so I wasn’t aware of the seating plan on this particular plane.
As for choosing a seat, I’m sure this varies by airline, too. I don’t fly that often, but I have chosen a particular seat in advance, not just a class of seating. I also realize that the airlines can change this, but I admit that I would probably be peeved to be moved to a different seat than I chose in order to have someone else take my “reserved” seat for no explained reason.
Putting aside any feelings about Coulter, celebrities, media power or any of that, I have little sympathy for the airline getting some bad press. Posting a photo of the other woman is uncalled for, though.
Could someone quickly explain the airlines exact rights with regards to overbooking.
Say a plane has 120 seats:
They don’t want unsold seats. Naturally.
They sell more than they have. They sell 130, expecting some to not show.
The gate opens and 130 people show up to check in.
Shouldn’t the first 120 who show up get seats - end of story, with the provision that after 120 are seated, if any of those 120 want to give up their seat for one of the 10 extras, great. Why should the airline be allowed to remove any of the already seated 120 to allow of the 10 late comers to board? What’s my incentive to come early/on-time? Why should any late-comer be “entitled” to seating.
This idea that the airline is entitled to resell an empty (but paid-for seat) is ridiculous.
Take it to the extreme. I’m a nervous traveler and hate being near people. I’m wealthy and buy all 120 seats. I want to be the only passenger. The airline has made its maximum by selling every seat. Why should they make me allow people to take any seat that I’ve paid for?
This is the gist of what I was asking in the OP, but I stupidly provided a couple of examples (one of which turned out to be a misunderstanding of the story on my part). Iggy cited the section of the Contract of Carriage in post #6, which is Rule 115(c):
She tweeted a picture of the woman with “daschund-like legs” who took her seat. In the picture, people are seated 3-across. Since we’re talking about A,D,F seats odds are this is a 3-3 seating plane.
At one time you could “reserve a seat” with a payment. Nowadays, most airline simply offer for a fee ($30 in this case?) to sell you a “comfort-plus” seat. So as long as you get one of those, anywhere on the plane, they’ve delivered. In fact, exit rows exceed the other comfort-plus seats in terms of leg room.
Seat selection when you buy tickets or check in online is AFAIK not guaranteed. This is the crux of the issue.
(I will say Ann seems to have show reasonable restraint on the aircraft… One flight I was on, when the plane left the gate they moved one lady up to the first-class seats. A guy nearby was so incensed demanding to know why she got to move instead of him, didn’t like the answer. he interrupted the flight attendant twice while she was trying to do the safety demo to start the discussion over again (no yelling). The second time, she had the plane moved back to the gate and he was taken off. Don’t mess with flight attendants doing their job.)
In this state, if I vacate a rental property before the end of the contract term, then I could be paying the rent even when I am not there. But the owner must make the standard reasonable endeavour to find new tennants, and not charge me rent when someone is occupying the place or when they aren’t seriously trying to fill it, eg its unavailable to rent for renovations.
So the OP has a serious question implied - if I don’t turn up for a flight, and they put someone one else in my seat, then they sold my seat to that other person. Isn’t that my seat that they sold, so they owe me for that seat… ie I get a refund ???
I really doubt that real estate law applies to airlines.
If you really want to get a refund when you don’t show up, then simply buy a refundable ticket. It’s that easy. Delta and all of the other major airlines would be happy to sell you one. Don’t show up, get your money back.
But if you get a non-refundable ticket, you are making a deal with the airline: You get a deep discount and they get to keep your money if you don’t show up. You can’t have the discount and still get your money back.
Airlines generally deal with overbooking situations before anybody is seated. See the recent United news for an example of why it’s tactically unwise to give someone bad news once they’re already on the plane.
They prefer to deal with these situations (which are not always caused by overselling) voluntarily, but if it does get down to the unpleasantness of bumping someone involuntarily, I believe check-in order is one of the things airlines look at, but it isn’t the only thing. If a 104-times-a-year business traveler with platinum six-star admiral status shows up last, he’s getting on the plane and someone else isn’t.
I like the appeal of first to check in is first seated, but the airlines also have a couple obligations under law that might come into play which would require them to prioritize a passenger who did check in by the deadline but who might be in the last 10 passengers to check in. If an unaccompanied minor or disabled passenger is among that last 10 then they ARE getting a seat and someone else isn’t.
The UM gets priority because we simply do not think it is acceptable to use a kid as a pawn and minors have less flexibility and resources to adapt to changes. And the disabled person gets priority since we cannot turn airline boarding into a footrace that certain disabled persons will always lose.
Plus UM presents all sort of legal liabilities if they have to sit in a crowded airport (or worse, spend the night somewhere) under the airline’s care. Ditto for some disabled - some longer term medical/care issues if they are stuck in an airport may be far more problematic.
We have overbooking specifically because some passengers can buy refundable (or free change) tickets. I have been in a business meeting where the boss droned on and on… And at each break some participants went to pone and rebook flights, from 1PM to 3PM to 5PM to 7PM… Those persons, with their expensive tickets, were taking seats that likely had already been sold to low-paying peons. But then, they gave those seats back until the 7PM flight.
(I’m trying to think of ANY flight I’ve been on in the last few years whether in Canada, around the USA, or even to Europe, the Middle East and India, where the cabin was not completely full.)
Even where there’s no overbooking, airlines still have to make these choices. Planes break down and smaller planes have to be substituted, there’s a strong headwind and the pilot decides that passengers have to be removed to save fuel, people have canceled flights or missed connections and have to be accommodated, a pilot in another city gets food poisoning and they have to send a new one out on a full flight, etc.
JetBlue doesn’t overbook, but still has a higher-than-average propensity to involuntarily bump passengers.
True, not all bumping is overbooking. But my point stands. Airlines sell flexible tickets that impose little or no penalty for changing your flight up to the last minute (not sure if it includes no-show, never had the type of ticket to cover that). I suspect the super-el-cheapo ticket holders rarely miss a flight. I suppose once in a while someone sleeps in or has a car breakdown on the way to th airport or a family emergency, but I expect nobody buys a two-hundred-dollar or more ticket with the attitude, “Nah, I think I’ll throw that away…”
Those flexible tickets mess it up for the rest. The airline knows (guesses) what percent will typically no-show and overbooks accordingly. Sometimes they guess wrong.