The regulations go into great detail about many aspects of dealing with the disabled but I can’t find much reference to the use of overhead stowage.
The closest I came to it was this PDF:
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(5) Assistance in loading and retrieving carry-on items, including mobility aids and other assistive devices stowed on board in accordance with § 382.41.
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J.H. Christ.
maybe this flight attendant was just having a bad day. must every little thing always be some fucking capital-crime indictment of discrimination and intolerance?
***Emphasis mine.
I’m one of the people that was suggesting that the attendant had no responsibility to help this person earlier- but I was wrong.
If these are the rules that the flight attendants fly by, I can’t see it any other way. “Assistance in loading and retrieving carry-on items” is clear enough.
Reading through the cite I posted there was nothing mandating crews use the overhead stowage. I did find references saying the crew could send stuff to the belly compartment. I’m not arguing that Flight Attendants don’t have to assist but I couldn’t find reference that a passenger could dictate where the luggage goes. The FA could have sent the bag to the belly. Without a codified procedure it’s a pissing match between FA and passenger/customer as to where the bag gets shoved.
Really?
“Assistance in loading and retrieving carry-on items” seems to include overhead luggage, imo. Considering you, you know, carry 'em on with you.
Read the 16 page file I linked and show me that FA’s have to bench press luggage. All they have to do is “deal with it”. Doesn’t say how but it does say they can send luggage down.
As willing as I am to make contributions to the discussion, I’m completely unwilling to read 16 pages about it.
It says that they have to help load carry ons. I don’t see how much more black and white it can get. And even if you are right, she should have offered to send it to the belly of the plane, because her statement “we don’t have to help” is BS.
I couldn’t find anything from United but American Airlines lists the following physical requirements for Flight Attendants:
**Able to lift, push and pull heavy articles as required. Able to reach all emergency equipment on all aircraft types. Not to exceed a height maximum of 6’2".
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Normally, when posting jobs that require heavy lifting there is a number involved. Most freight companies I’ve dealt with use 70 lbs. It looks to me like the regulations are specific on the need to help, including sending luggage to the belly, but not about lifting luggage.
“We don’t have to help” is her version of it. They are required to deal with the luggage but if the person insists it goes in the overhead bins then it’s a pissing match.
I personally would want FA’s to be able to lift luggage of X weight but if union members don’t want to then it’s whatever the contract says that is within the bounds of regulations for the physical or mentally handicapped. One of fun things about laws for the disabled is that it works both ways. It looks like the laws were written so that FA’s don’t have to lift luggage.
You can get into the specifics of what the FA can and can’t do but as described the FA failed to meet the legal requirement of making a reasonable accommodation. She flat out refused to make any accommodation. She told a legitimately disabled person ‘you are on your own’.
If the FA for any reason did not wish to put the bag in the overhead, whether it concerns for her own back or not wishing to touch that filthy woman’s bag idc. There were other options she could have offered. She could have offered to send the back to checked language, she could have asked another airline staffer to put the bag in the overhead. She could have offered to but it in any of the non-overhead compartments on the plane. She could have proposed she dissemble the luggage and put the contents up piece by piece because it was to heavy for her to handle.
The point is she did nothing. She made no attempt to explain herself or to make any reasonable accommodation. While I agree with many of the posters saying the passenger was being a bitch, the FA was also a bitch and the circumstances of the UA policy and letter of the law leave me no choice but to advocate for the passenger.
Does anyone want to argue the FA did make reasonable accommodations?
You’re basing this on the bitch-o-gram from the passenger. Yes, the FA is responsible for stowing the luggage, but if the passenger insists on it going into the overhead then it’s a pissing match.
And you’re basing the argument that the passenger was insistent it go into the overhead and nowhere else on…well, your imagination, near as I can tell.
If the FA had offered to stow the luggage somewhere else and the passenger had pitched a fit, you’d have a point, but I don’t see any indication that anything of the sort happened on either side. And really, given that the woman was bitching about having a headache because of the kids behind her, don’t you think if she’d been offered gate-check and refused, she wouldn’t have mentioned that and gone off on a rant about how totally unacceptable it was to have her carry-on checked and what if she needed to access it during the flight and blah blah blah?
The thing is, carry-on baggage means carry-on baggage. If it isn’t in the passenger cabin, it isn’t carry-on.
If you attempt to carry a bag on the airplane but the crew takes it from you and sends it to the cargo hold, it is no longer carry-on baggage, it is gate-checked baggage.
If a disabled person carries a bag onto a plane, the FA can put it overhead, under a seat, or in one of those compartments in which they hang jackets and stuff for business class passengers and still be in compliance with the law. But the FA didn’t, so she’s wrong. There’s nothing in the law that says that FAs do not have to assist bitchy disabled passengers.
I don’t know about that. I mainly passenger in Australian operated B737s and A320s, both aircraft types have placards in the overhead bins directing wheeled bags to be stowed with the wheels to the back of the bin. That implies that it is acceptable to put them up there. The limitations on overhead bins are generally a total weight limit, provided everyone’s bag is around 7kg (or whatever the airline limit for the aircraft type is) there shouldn’t be a problem. I’m well aware that some passengers try to stuff large bags in the overheads, but my wheeled bag is 7kg and most other’s look a similar size. Ideally the bins would be designed to bulk out before reaching their limiting weight based on typical carry-on contents, but I don’t know if that’s the case or not.
As far as the OP goes, I think the airline should be responsible for securing carry-on luggage for passengers who are unable to do so themselves and I’d have serious doubts about an FA’s ability to be of any use in an emergency if they are physically unable to stow 7kg bags in overhead bins on a regular basis. If the FA lifts the bag and decides it is over weight, then they get it checked as it should be.
You’d probably find that it is legally the captain’s responsibility to ensure that all luggage is stowed safely but that this responsibility is delegated by way of company procedure to various other people such as baggage handlers and flight attendants.
I just flew on an Air Canada A333 and the passenger safety video (which is, AFAICT the same for every plane; I fly often enough on A320s as well) specifically states that heavier baggage should be in the floor while lighter items should be in the overhead bins. This makes sense, given the laws of physics.
That said, the fact that the Australian civil aviation authority has decided to not only allow bags up to 7kg in the overheads but to also use placards to indicate how to load them means that they probably have data to show that the risk is low enough to warrant it, considering the number of flight hours with passengers with such bags etc. Transport Canada has not, to my knowledge (which is admittedly very very limited) come to the same conclusion.
Ideally, the overhead bins should be able to hold these suitcases. The issue is not the weight of them, but the loading on the door latches in the event of a sudden hit by the bags if they shift due to turbulence etc. Older planes were not designed with this in mind. They might be able to withstand it, but I don’t know if the data exists to show that they can. I assume companies have/are looking at this, but I don’t have that info. I assume some planes can handle it, some can’t.
I’m an amateur in this field, though it is the career that I am pursuing, FWIW. This is my understanding of the issue as I’ve encountered it so far, but it is far from all-inclusive.
Just got done talking with someone in the industry. FA’s are specifically instructed NOT to lift items into the overhead bin. If a passenger wants to bring a carry-on with them then they either put it under the seat or lift it into the overhead themselves. There is nothing in the regulations requiring this and if you read them you will understand just how detailed they are.
Can you please ask your contact how they are supposed to comply with the law which requires them to render assistance to disabled passengers with their carry-on bags?
On edit: did you ask them if they are supposed to help passengers with their bags, or if they are supposed to help disabled passengers with their bags? Obviously there’s a difference between the two questions.
The discussion was specific to the handicap. If it’s carry-on they are welcome to put it under the seat.
If she had been offered gate check you might have a point, but if the FA might have offered to stow the bag under the seat or in the compartment at the front and the passanger might not have mentioned it. In my experience people like this don’t mention the parts of the story that make them look unreasonable.
I agree with others that have said the FA should have offered help, but I’m not convinced that she didn’t. I find it unlikely that this passenger would have experienced all of this unpleasantness on one trip - stories like this are often embellished and sometimes I think people are sure they remember things that never even happened. I also think she had unreasonable expectations of airflight - flying is annoying for everyone, and while I fully believe that disabled passengers should get the help that they need, I think it’s unrealistic to think you are going to get special VIP type treatment. Everyone ends up waiting around and getting annoyed by noisy kids, etc.
Overall I think this woman sounds like a pain in the ass. Disabled or not, she has an awful lot of bitterness and a huge sense of entitlement for someone who is only 29.
I don’t fly very often, but on several of the latest occasions the FA has offered to take my bag and put it in the overhead bin. When the flight’s over, the FA usually lifts my bag down for me, too. I never ask for this, it’s something that the FAs just offer to do. I use a cane or walking stick to help me walk, and ever since then, the FAs have started to offer this assistance. I usually fly American Airlines, for what it’s worth, but sometimes I fly other airlines.