I’m not sure what you have in mind, here: him getting voted out in a primary, or in an election? Because if the people of his state were set to vote him out in an election, then he may well have done his causes more good by dropping out so someone else in his party could better carry the torch…
Maybe…that does not seem to be the consensus. Even Franken thinks he made a mistake leaving. As do many of his former colleagues.
When I asked him if he truly regretted his decision to resign, he said, “Oh, yeah. Absolutely.” He wishes that he had appeared before a Senate Ethics Committee hearing, as he had requested, allowing him to marshal facts that countered the narrative aired in the press. It is extremely rare for a senator to resign under pressure. No senator has been expelled since the Civil War, and in modern times only three have resigned under the threat of expulsion: Harrison Williams, in 1982, Bob Packwood, in 1995, and John Ensign, in 2011. Williams resigned after he was convicted of bribery and conspiracy; Packwood faced numerous sexual-assault accusations; Ensign was accused of making illegal payoffs to hide an affair.
A remarkable number of Franken’s Senate colleagues have regrets about their own roles in his fall. Seven current and former U.S. senators who demanded Franken’s resignation in 2017 told me that they’d been wrong to do so. Such admissions are unusual in an institution whose members rarely concede mistakes. Patrick Leahy, the veteran Democrat from Vermont, said that his decision to seek Franken’s resignation without first getting all the facts was “one of the biggest mistakes I’ve made” in forty-five years in the Senate. Heidi Heitkamp, the former senator from North Dakota, told me, “If there’s one decision I’ve made that I would take back, it’s the decision to call for his resignation. It was made in the heat of the moment, without concern for exactly what this was.” Tammy Duckworth, the junior Democratic senator from Illinois, told me that the Senate Ethics Committee “should have been allowed to move forward.” She said it was important to acknowledge the trauma that Franken’s accusers had gone through, but added, “We needed more facts. That due process didn’t happen is not good for our democracy.” Angus King, the Independent senator from Maine, said that he’d “regretted it ever since” he joined the call for Franken’s resignation. “There’s no excuse for sexual assault,” he said. “But Al deserved more of a process. I don’t denigrate the allegations, but this was the political equivalent of capital punishment.” Senator Jeff Merkley, of Oregon, told me, “This was a rush to judgment that didn’t allow any of us to fully explore what this was about. I took the judgment of my peers rather than independently examining the circumstances. In my heart, I’ve not felt right about it.” Bill Nelson, the former Florida senator, said, “I realized almost right away I’d made a mistake. I felt terrible. I should have stood up for due process to render what it’s supposed to—the truth.” Tom Udall, the senior Democratic senator from New Mexico, said, “I made a mistake. I started having second thoughts shortly after he stepped down. He had the right to be heard by an independent investigative body. I’ve heard from people around my state, and around the country, saying that they think he got railroaded. It doesn’t seem fair. I’m a lawyer. I really believe in due process.”
Former Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid, who watched the drama unfold from retirement, told me, “It’s terrible what happened to him. It was unfair. It took the legs out from under him. He was a very fine senator.” Many voters have also protested Franken’s decision. A Change.org petition urging Franken to retract his resignation received more than seventy-five thousand signatures. It declared, “There’s a difference between abuse and a mistake.” SOURCE
I’m sure I’ll never find it (in part because I’m too lazy to look for it) but IIRC I read a story that basically said that the right richly rewarded Tweeden for saying what she said about Al. I think he was mugging for a photo—she’s sleeping and he’s going in for the grope—he thought it was funny but others didn’t see it that way. That’s an error in judgment: what plays on SNL isn’t what plays on the political stage.
I had the impression that in politics, he was like Sonny Bono: his celebrity may have helped him get elected but he still wanted to prove to his peers that he deserved to be there and he put his nose to the grindstone.
I like Al quite a bit. If he’s willing to put it to a vote, why not?
That is not sufficient to make something a job. An elected official is not hired, they cannot be fired, they have no employer, and they are not subject to employment laws.
And, despite what some say, government is not a business. Elected officials do not work for the government.
Yes, they are hired. They go through an extensive interview process (an election).
Yes, they can be fired. They can be fired by their colleagues or, in some cases, they can be recalled by their constituents. Certainly they can be fired by their constituents in the next election (the usual means).
They collect a paycheck for doing their work.
It is a job. Just because it has unusual criteria for getting and keeping the job does not make it not a job.
I hope Franken doesn’t run again, at least not without demonstrating real contrition that I haven’t seen so far. But if he wants to run, he can run, and the voters will decide. I hope the party does not support him in the primary, and I hope he loses the primary, if he runs for any office.
Sexual abuse can, of course, take many forms, but I’d say that someone who repeatedly grabs women by the ass and tries to stick his tongue down their throat is a sexual abuser.
YMMV.
I mean, personally, if you didn’t make it to an adult age without learning to keep your damned hands to yourself, I’m okay with you never holding a position of responsibility again for the rest of your life. Okay, maybe if they demonstrate contrition and try to make amends, but the only thing Franken has shown contrition over is resigning. He still maintains he did nothing wrong, and that all eight of the women accusing him are “mistaken.”
So, basically, fuck that guy. He shouldn’t be in politics. If he’s hard up for cash, I hear WalMart is hiring stock boys.
Again, Tweeden was not the only person accusing Franken. Seven other women accused him of inappropriate sexual behavior, and most of them were Democrats.
Any cites? I’m open minded about this. Seven other women (and most Democrats) sounds pretty specific and I’ll admit, I didn’t follow the story very closely. I didn’t think Bill Cosby would have fallen like he did, either, so I’m keeping an open mind.
Not counting Tweeden (I mean, it counts but we all know that one although I think that was the least of these):
Lindsay Menz - Grope
Stephanie Kemplin - Grope
Tina Dupuy - Grope
Two unnamed- Grope
Unnamed - Open mouth kiss
Unnamed - Forcible kiss
Source:
This New Yorker article from 2019, already linked to upthread by @Whack-a-Mole, is well worth reading for the case for and against Franken:
Resigning from the Senate is not like serving a prison term. The problem is one of character as much as of actual deeds. I am disappointed in his attitude, and I hope he does not run. I also hope he does not serve as someone else’s advisor. He can write or lecture and try to persuade people about the issues of the day, if he wants to be involved in public life.
He was a perfectly adequate replacement-level senator. And he got replaced. Life goes on. And the idea that he was somehow forced to resign makes him less compelling as a potential candidate, not more; he couldn’t handle the weight of some press releases that would have been forgotten in 48 hours or so? No, he resigned willingly, which for better or worse is the equivalent of a guilty plea in our political system.
The electoral system does not exist to provide justice to politicians and I hope he doesn’t try to use it that way.
Here in Minnesota, we are pretty happy with the 2 Senators we have now, Democrats Amy Klobuchar & Tina Smith. And neither is old enough to be likely to have to retire soon. So it’s not like there is much room for Al Franken to run. And he’s almost a decade older than them.
But Franken is still liked in Minnesota, and a prominent speaker and fundraiser at DFL Party events. Doing good work in that way.
Speaking of prison and the issues of the day, I’m reminded of a line from Koestler about being useful without vanity: I’d take the question to Franken to be, how could he be of most use in advancing his ideological goals — and, in that light, I can clearly see the case for having stepped down as he did, so that someone who lacks his ‘electability’ concerns could keep evaluating legislation in pretty much the same way that he would’ve — and I’d figure it’d make sense for him to keep viewing things in that light when deciding whether to run or to let someone else run (while mentioning a 50/50 Senate).
Thanks
He doesn’t need anyone’s permission to run.
This, I think, is the answer. I think there are plenty of people who will never be convinced that his offenses were not horribly egregious, or that his dues paid have been sufficient. (And no, I am not going to try to parse/debate and portion of that sentence.). He displayed - at the least - poor judgment. I tend to think he reacted honorably. It is nice to identify with a party that acts honorably - at least on occasion.
Perhaps his situation reflected the specific time period WRT awareness of women’s rights, but that’s too bad. Even if one feels he has “paid his dues,” he isn’t NEEDED as a Senator from MN.
He always was a sorta lower-mid level celeb. I thought he was a pretty impressive Dem/liberal spokesman - and the Senate gave him an effective podium. I can imagine him being frustrated at not being able to give what he has to offer. But I think he should focus on how he can have the greatest impact OUTSIDE OF elected office. I’m not sure what that would be.
He doesn’t have to run in Minnesota. According to the article he now lives in NYC. He’s previously said that he would not challenge Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, who was the first Senate Democrat to call for his resignation and broke open the dam that forced him out. But she’s not up until 2024, which is plenty of time for him to change his mind.
Okay, call it a job, if you like. But you do acknowledge that holding elected office is substantively different that other pursuits. Holding elected office is a privilege. When someone disqualifies themselves, there’s no parole process to redeem themselves from that.
And that’s okay. Franken is not destitute or exiled. His sole punishment for his actions was his voluntary resignation, right? Did he pay any damages or serve any time? I don’t see any reason why Minnesota voters should consider him to represent them when they have many other choices.