And one of the biggest things only about 50% of us can do this year is vote the current administration out. In 2 more years the rest of us can vote for congresspeople with spines.
Sam
I’m sure he was all for the ruling that prevents him from holding “enemy combatants”.
Besides the fact that at the time the House was Republican controlled (might help him), the Senate tied, and that the President since 9/11 has run to Congress to back up his grudge while adding the “Signifigant increase in terrorist chatter” tagline while we all hold our breath hoping we don’t go from yellow to orange… No. This isn’t democracy.
See the propaganda techniques described above.
And I can’t believe you actually are letting Congress and the Courts off the hook for this by focusing completely on Bush. Lemme ask ya, are you voting Democrat for your local representative this year? You haven’t mentioned it, all you’re doing is blaming Bush.
Bush Bush Bush Bush, he’s singlehandedly destroying our country and consolidating all power in his grubby little hands. Good job for a guy who can’t speak the language, failed in all his businesses, and skated his way through school. Make him president and suddenly he’s some kind of evil dynamo.
Give credit where credit is due. If we’re going to hell in a handbasket, he’s had a lot of help weaving it. You want to focus on him as the source of all evil in the US, feel free, fact is that our duly elected representatives are just letting him do what he wants, and I’m sure they’ll get re-elected as usual.
Clayton, I’m sure he didn’t like the ruling, but the fact is that it went against him, thus he is not some all powerful lawbreaking machine, he has to follow the rules too. Note also that the Iraq invasion resolution was not passed strictly along party lines, a whole slew of Dems voted for it too.
Bush’s minions are part of this, but since one of Bush’s roles is to act as the head of government, he’s the one on the hook. Since I can’t vote Donald Rumsfeld or Paul Wolfowitz out of office, I’ve got to vote their boss out.
No one’s saying that Bush is acting alone. Go back and re-read Gore’s speech. Congress is just as culpable, by acting as Bush’s agents. Their legislation is crafted according to the administration’s specifications, and congressmen are bullied into passing it.
And the idea that the adminstration will be constrained by the recent SCOTUS ruling on enemy combatants is laughable. It’ll just be something else to work around. They’ll figure out a way to do it; they’re smart people.
Robin
Ok, then “the president may imprison a person for almost three years, or until somebody gives enough of a damn to bring the matter before the Supreme Court (whichever comes first), without charges and without counsel, at which point in time they’ll be offered the chance to prove they’re not guilty”.
Happy now?
-lv
I’ll take Congress to task. Every one of them who voted for the Iraq War resolution–including Kerry, Edwards, and my representative Harold Ford Jr. of the Tennessee 9th–totally abdicated their constitutional responsibilities. In my world, they deserve impeachment. Every one of them who voted for the Patriot Act without fucking reading it (or getting a staffer to read it, or even saying “wait a minute here–let’s think about this!”) deserves to be voted from office and replaced with a more responsible legislator. And every day that goes by that articles of impeachment are not filed against President Bush for repeatedly and flagarantly lying to Congress IN THE FUCKING STATE OF THE UNION ADDRESS, FOR THE LOVE OF ONE-LEGGED CHRIST about Iraq’s possession of weapons of mass destruction just adds kindling to their funeral pyres.
I long for the days when I just disagreed with my conservative brothers and sisters about optimal methods for distribution of goods and services. Now it seems there are so many who have forgotten the basic rules of the game. This nation was founded on a principal of separation of powers in order to avoid tyranny. We, as a nation, hate and despise tyranny and the appearance of it. Bush is not a tyrant yet, but yond Crassius has a lean and hungry look. And there appear to be too many who would feed him.
IMHO, Al Gore shoulders the blame for his loss in 2000. He ran a crappy campaign, and even though he still got more votes than the other guy, he left the Bush machine a big enough opening to sieze power. I believe he was not agressive enough in his actions during the Floirda recount debacle, but I believe he thought (note the important emphasis) the reason he did what he did (or didn’t do what was needed) was out of a a sense of statesmanship and duty to his country. I do not believe the other side was burdened with such feelings. I am proud that he has found both voice and courage when his country needs him.
And I can’t shake the feeling that lib is yanking my chain.
Due respect, Rjung, I’ve been reading these Pit threads. I’ve seen Bush criticized for looking goofy, for mispronouncing words, for having false memories, for zoning out protests at his speeches (just like every president since Johnson has done), for having Saudi Arabian friends, and for waiting too long at the school. The Pit has been overwhelmed with Bush threads about diddly squat. RTFirefly even opened a thread with absolutely zero content in the OP just to provide a platform for bitching about piddly shit. I haven’t seen anything discussed about our loss of liberty except by me, and I have been criticized for it. In fact, RT asked me in no uncertain terms to stay out of political discussions where I invoke concepts like freedom. The reason it took so long is because it wasn’t until now that I saw an argument made that was so compelling and so focused on Bush’s tyranny that I realized that I cannot afford to vote based on principle. I am compelled to vote for what I can only hope is not a worse tyrant. If you Democrats want to offset Ralph Nader’s votes, one way you could do it is by making Bush’s disregard for liberty the main point of your contempt for him. The other things are just symptoms of the greater disease.
Sure. Look, someone asked for a rebuttal. I offered what seems to be one. No point in getting mad at me; I voted Gore last time out.
Count me amongst those who suspect a bit of chain-yanking is going on here.
Truly a superb speech.
Liberal, my thanks to you for bringing it to our attention!
Sorry Moto, can’t let you slide on this pathetic response. Doesn’t it hurt when someone you hate can say something so sensible, in a clear, intelligent fashion? The envy you have is so transparent. Since I don’t know what you look like, I’ll just imagine the look on Rush Limbaugh’s face after he read Gore’s speech.
Wow. I love the following quote from that speech:
And I hope to God we do it!
My pleasure. Thank you for reading it. I e-mailed the URL to a local LP official. Within twenty minutes, he called me by telephone. He is forwarding it to every person on his contact listing. It is absolutely compelling, and drills its way directly into the heart of all freedom loving people. Whatever Al Gore might ever have done or said, he has redeemed himself. I’m not so naive as to think that I will always agree with him on every issue. He is still probably left-leaning. But I will always respect him, and will always listen to what he has to say.
Congrtulations, Mr.Moto.
Eigth reply in the thread and you manage to bring up the tired “but Clinton…” excuse.
What a fucking joke.
-Joe
Knorf, that is indeed a wonderful passage! Here is the one that hooked me. First sentence, second paragraph:
I fell in love! 
To see these words from someone with such power and influence truly made my day.
I predict Kerry in a landslide!
Well, in all fairness he did have his knob polished. Clearly what is happening now pales in comparison.
Dear Sir,
Respectfully, I must dissent.
The Statesman can only sing the verse of the present State. In truth, Mr Gore has benefited from Trial, yet the tune is stale and the lyric is bitter.
If the seeds of Liberty are all that remain of the Republic, I fear a hard winter is our only salvation. King George must prevail. The balm of the ballot is a thick bed of hay on the furrow: the frost will spread more subtly and the fields will surely fail.
Our one chance be in the hardship, and that our fecundity of Spirit will nurture the early kernels of Freedom. It is not yet too cold, and though they shiver, our Brothers sleep.
Let the hibernal chill come, and pray that it wake them.
Yours in Liberty,
El Cid
and
Due respect to you people, but What. The. Fuck? I cannot recall when I haven’t been derided as that loon who preaches about individual liberty and the dangers of tyranny. Some people have done it rudely, some with a condescending pat on the head, and a few even empathetically, agreeing in principle but telling me to calm down nonetheless. How can it now be that I am yanking chains by doing what I have always done? Is it because it is Al Gore and not Harry Browne who made the speech? Is it unbelievable that I would give credit where credit is due? Is it because I do not settle down on one side or the other, favoring either Demublicans or Republicrats? I favor freedom. I favor the notion that peaceful honest people should be free to pursue their own happiness in their own way. Freedom is a thing so beautiful and terrible that it wipes away all enmity. It is the great political aesthetic. If Al Gore has become a champion for freedom, then I have become a champion for Al Gore.
Liberal, There has been a time or two when I have been at odds with you but, for the record, your posts in this thread have stuck me as 100% sincere and made in good faith.
I understand the sentiment, and I have bought into it before. But as I understand the reasoning, it is economic tyranny that is supposed to wake the hearts of people and not social tyranny. A man can lose all his property to the likes of Hillary Marx-Clinton but still have his body and mind. But when a man can be imprisoned at the whim of George W. Mussolini, and his original property — his body and his mind — tortured until he is crippled and hysterical if not dead, then whatever else he might own is of no use except to the vultures who destroyed him.
We can be brothers without being friends, if only for this one critical task. Thank you, Binary.