Al Gore warns us about Bush

Thank you from me too Liberal. Of course you’re right, the issue of liberty and freedom is far more important than how long he stayed at a school. I just say again that for future historians, all aspects of this administration will be examined, the big things and the small things. Everything should be catalogued and discussed.

I wish this Al Gore had ran for President. He seems to be at his best when he’s indignant.

Here’s a video of the speech. There are some things that are left out of the printed text.

http://nmmstream.net:8080/ramgen/acs/240604/gore.rm

That’s an excellent point, but I must most respectfully and fervently disagree.

The will of our settlers was not broken under harsh privation or the pain of starvation or solitude. The will was not broken by the yoke of oppression or the whip of rule, where the lives of our people were destroyed, where our citizens were deprived of trial by jury, where the salaries of our very judges were little more than the alms of a tyrant. The American Will was not broken even when our Fathers were “forced to bear arms against their country, to become the executioners of friends and brethren.” Did not our founders petition for redress, and ultimately strike out against the persecution?

The hearts of our people are strong, for, despite centuries of torture and rape, murder and incarceration, open warfare, stultification, marginalization and confinement on soil that belongs to no man, the Will of our First Fathers lives on. It lives in my blood, Liberal, as it does in yours.

This is the Spirit that is endowed by our Creator, a Spirit that is nourished daily by the strength of this great Land. Nothing can take that away.

Yours,

El Cid

due respect and all, but - I recall lots of discussion wrt the detainees in Gitmo, being concerned that we weren’t allowed to know anything about them, numbers, ages, places of origin etc. I recall lots of discussion wrt those who were detained right after 9/11, held w/o charges, lawyers, notice to families. I recall lots of discussion wrt Padilla (sp?) . I recall specifically mentioning “US citizen arrested on US Soil, held w/o charges, w/o access to attorney etc etc etc” and was asked for proof, provided same and was met w/a shrug, “oh well, one guy, probably a bad guy to boot”

we were met w/resounding choruses of "but this situation is different, we’re dealing with terrorists and bad guys, like Saddam, we were accused of being naive, supporters of tyranny and torture, treasonous and ‘stoopid’.

Sorry, but you’ve come late to the party, Lib, glad to have you on board and all, but there were many of us way back when who were concerned about the way things were headed, and got literally shouted down. So, please, if you would, realize that you’re not in fact, the first to be concerned about liberty and justice for all.

We noted the rule of law went away w/o a murmer. We protested the Patriot Act, we were worried to the max about statements that detainees weren’t to be afforded Geneva status, they were ‘enemy combatants’, we voiced concern about the legalities of all this way back when it was happening. and were shouted down. NOw, SCOTUS has issued their ruling that Gitmo folks are to be heard and have access to lawyers, and the administration’s response is to set up the military tribunals.

So, no, you weren’t the first to note the errosion of our hard fought liberties. (not claiming to be the first, either, of course)

Good to see you’re finally coming around Lib :wink:
There is only one way to bring about change, to improve the American people’s freedoms and it’s standing in the world today. I’m sure no candidate can give us the required change immediately, so whilst Kerry may not be the ideal choice of many, progress has to start somewhere.

As for that speech, that’ll have to wait for tomorrow for me. It sounds like it is worth reading though.

I don’t recall ever referring to you as a loon; you do strike me as a bit eccentric and certainly given to florid language, but those aren’t crimes in my book.

Glad you’ve suddenly discovered the magnitude of what this administration has been doing to the country and all, but I guess I’m a bit grumpy 'cause this is all stuff I knew a long time ago, and it sure didn’t take a speech from Al Gore to have it all fall into place for me.

Yeah, well, great, but he’s not running for Prez this year.

Anyway, sorry for my near-total lack of enthusiasm; I’ll shut up and leave y’all to it.

Welcome aboard, Lib. I’m happy to see you putting that formidable mind of yours to good use in the fight against tyranny.

Sorry for my prior posts in which I seem to have anticipated your decision. But then, I’ve been getting wrong ideas about you ever since 1999, haven’t I? :wink:

I, for one, am curious to know how Al Gore defines “anyone,” because it sure doesn’t seem to jive with what Webster says…

Libertarians back Kerry! Nation shudders in political paroxysm as Libertarian Party throws full support! Candidate Whats-his-face withdraws from race! Film at 11!

(Anti-Vivisection League still undecided…)

I don’t mean to rain on anybody’s epiphany, but for some reason this makes me envision someone repeatedly bashing his head against a brick wall, only to stand in amazement as a brick in an adjacent wall suddenly falls free of its own accord.

I can’t tell you how tickled I am that Al Gore uses Jon Stewart as a cite. :slight_smile:

Good on you, Liberal, and congratulations on your (late-ish) epiphany. It’s always great to see someone take a firm stand on things like this, whether it’s you or Gore.

It’s been said before, but some of us have been concerned about this kind of thing for years. I guess the threads about Bush falling off his bike drowned this stuff out though.

Sorry - I just realized that this was the same speech that Gore gave quite some time ago, the speech for which Gore was lambasted for using the phrase “digital Brown Shirts.”

I’m sorry to say that I did not read it at the time. It is a very good speech, despite the comparison to Nazis.

Liberal, my hat’s off to you for taking a stand based on your principles. I’m impressed.

Too many (and this bloody well goes for both sides in the US political debate) get caught up in the team spirit - to the point where they will fabricate the most intricate excuses so as to be able to still root for the home team with something resembling a clean conscience. (As a countryman of mine once put it:“People appear to buy their political opinions in matched assortments, like furniture.”)

It would be sort of interesting if GWB’s presidency turned out to be a catalyst for change in US politics, no ?

For people who have been paying attention, which sadly didn’t include me, Gore has been at this for a while.

From a speech he made November 9, 2003

Due respect to you, libertarian, but when somebody who uses “liberal” as an insult and even goes so far to change his name to deride people who believe as I do suddenly calls Al Gore a hero, my bullshit detector starts clicking like a Geiger counter in Chernobyl. Perhaps it’s a testament to how low the level of political discord has sunk, or perhaps it’s what happens when you’ve been called a traitor for the last two years for pointing out stuff like that. In any case, I’ll proceed with the assumption that you are sincere until there is evidence to the contrary.

I’ve explained many times now why I took on the name. As far as the “people who believe as I do” part, a person who believes in liberty for all people (including wealthy ones) is a liberal. Liberty. Liberal. Same same. As I said already, I doubt that I will always agree with Mr. Gore. When he starts his leftist nonsense about taking things away from people for the common good, I’ll rip him up for that. Meanwhile, like you, I’ll proceed on the assumption of sincerity barring proof otherwise.

The problem is that I only hear non-Americans say this. Maybe you and I and the vast bulk of the world outside America think there’s no way he an come back from the scandals and the fuckups. However, the rest of us don’t get a say in the matter and my fear is that you are projecting onto the American electorate your values and thought processes. No matter what you think of the men who end up as presidential candidates, the fact is that they know their countrymen and how to play to them. Hence the Tweedledum Tweedledee nature of the contenders.

I really hope you know America better than Bush, his PR machine, pollsters, and advisors.

If I may, I suggest you get a cup of coffee, then read the whole thing. This stuff is important.

Lib, good call. Excellent link.

Lib. Your endorsement makes this old liberal’s heart glad. Thanks for the link. While you appear on the surface to be a loon, I know that you’re just being true to your core principles. :slight_smile:

Boy, if I could only convince you this easily that you didn’t actually hear the contestant on The Newlywed Game say the words “up the butt, Bob” I’d consider my life complete and could die a happy fellow. :smiley:

I suggest that anyone who found Gore’s speech compelling read John Dean’s Worse Than Watergate. It outlines more of the abuses the Bush Administration has perpetrated on us, mostly in secret.

I think John Dean is in a position to say when presidential misdeeds are worse than Nixon’s.

Dean closes the book with a very scary picture of the extremes to which the administration are preparing to go in response to another terrorist attack. For instance, the Bush continuity of government plans seem to include the executive branch, but not the legislative or judicial. Scary, scary stuff.