This is a terrible strawman argument. To start with, Trout is a power hitter. He has 30 home runs and an OPS pretty close to Cabrera’s. So what you’re actually saying is that Trout is being rewarded for stealing a lot of bases and Cabrera is being penalized for not stealing bases, and that’s bad because, um… something. I admit it’d be a little unfair to expect Cabrera to steal a lot of bases because of his well known difficulty in walking a straight line.
It really means power and speed and are more impressive than just power. Let’s not forget Trout has 30 homers. Cabrera has had a great year but Trout had the best season, especially for people like me who are tired of defense being under-valued.
Suppose Hamilton homers tonight and Cabrera doesnt: does it count as the Triple Crown if you are tied in one or more categories?
It won’t bother me if Cabrera is named MVP. He had a monster September. Some say that having a big september is no more important or difficult than having a big May. I don’t buy it, and it makes for more exciting baseball regardless.
Stealing a base only advances you 1 base. Hitting HRs and driving in/scoring runs is the point of the sport.
The object of the game it to win. Specifically, to win the World Series. The Tigers still have a chance to do that, and the Angels don’t. Now, I’m not saying that numbers aren’t important, but you can’t say that winning isn’t important either.
Is it fair that Trout gets punished for playing in a strong division and Cabrera gets rewarded for playing in a weak one? Not at all. But that’s life.
It is interesting, because I think it really does come down to ‘old stats’ vs. 'new stats. If you go by WAR, Trout is clearly ‘better’. If you go by Triple Crown stats, it’s obviously Cabrera.
While there is argument about calculating WAR, it is on the level of the a few tenths here and there, but they all show Trout with a huge advantage. And no WAR does not take into account Cabrera moving, which is why this is n’t the WAR Award, voters should consider all sorts of things and they can consider that, no one would argue. The issue is whether these things outweigh the WAR and all around superiority that Trout has displayed both offensively and defensively.
Come on. This is not complicated: stealing bases makes it easier for you to score a run. Trout hits with power and steals a lot of bases, Cabrera hits for a lot of power and steals no bases. If scoring runs is the point, that works pretty well for Trout because he’s scored 125 runs to 109 to Cabrera even though he’s hit fewer home runs.
It seems like Trout had the better season statistically, despite Cabrerra’s likely Triple Crown. The only question I would have is does WAR take into account the talent of those around him? This is more of a general question, I suppose, and since Prince and Pujols are both great players, presumably Cabrerra and Trout both benefitted from batting next to/near those guys in the line-up. Anyway, would Trout have as high a WAR playing on an All Star team as he would playing on this year’s Astros, all other things being equal?
WAR actually does take the move into account. Part of the fielding portion of WAR includes a positional adjustment, based on relative levels of value across the defensive spectrum. With a quick look at Fangraphs, it looks like Cabrera got a +1.5 run positional adjustment this year (the ‘standard’ 3B adjustment is +2.5, but this will also be affected by relative level of offense each year at the position, as well as any games he played at 1B or DH that would drag it down). Over the last four years he’s been getting between -11 and -12 with his combination of 1B and DH. So he’s automatically getting a 13 or so run benefit - around 1.4 WAR in this year’s scoring environment - just by switching positions. He gives a little bit of this back on defense, of course, by being worse relative to the his peers at 3B than he was at 1B, but he actually wasn’t that much worse. He was just bad, rather than the total disaster some were predicting prior to the season.
Net effect, the move from 1B to 3B and then playing it not-disastrously gained him around 1 WAR, versus if he had the exact same hitting season at his old position.
Marley-Stealing 2nd puts you in position to score. Hitting a HR or being on base when someone does is how you score.
This is really the only context in life I’m a “get off my lawn” type.
etv78, Mike Trout also hits a lot of home runs. So, save that argument for the '80s when people might have been saying Vince Coleman should get the MVP.
I forgot they passed a rule against stealing third (and for that matter home)! :smack:
In fact those are not the only way you score runs, but whatever. We know Cabrera has 14 more home runs than Trout. But Trout scored 16 more runs than Cabrera. That indicates (in part) that his greater speed and the fact that he stole 45 more bases helped him score more runs. If scoring runs is the point of the game, that helps Trout because Trout scored more runs. And of course you have to get on base to score runs at all, and Trout got on base at a slightly greater clip.
Mike Trout’s baserunning has been worth 7 runs to the Angels this season… in non-base-stealing situations. That’s just taking the extra base.
C
Exactly. It’s not the stolen bases that are important, it’s the turning doubles into triples, scoring from first and legging out singles that would be outs for other players that matters. Also Trout’s defense. Oh, the home runs were nice too. Trout was the best player in baseball this year and it wasn’t close. If the White Sox hadn’t imploded at the end Detroit wasn’t going to sniff the playoffs, so you are crediting Cabrera with something he had no control over if you make the playoffs argument, particularly since the Tigers were the worse team. He also likely cost his team a game or two with his poor defense, he clearly cost them runs.
The Triple Crown is cool and Cabrera had a great season, but Trout is very clearly the best player in baseball, and baseball is about more than Triple Crown stats.
The question is moot now, but traditionally, yes. Carl Yastrzemski tied for the home run lead in 1967 and he’s on all the lists of Triple Crown winners. YES points out that he also led the league in hits and runs that year, and is the only person to lead the league in all those categories in one season. He was also the league leader in total bases and a few other hitting categories, and that should probably count as extra credit.
Oddly enough, Cabrera struck out LESS than Trout (by more than 40), walked more and was intentionally walked 4 times as much.
I was surprised to learn this.
Still, I would go with Trout. Defense still counts.
ESPN’s stats give Trout 67 walks and Cabrera 66.
I am not surprised that the guy who stole 50 bases didn’t get a lot of intentional walks.
I picked 2nd because it’s the most commonly stolen base.
Especially considering that he’s batting leadoff.
Ok. Do you plan to address any of these other points? Because nobody thinks this is an argument about stolen bases vs. home runs.
No one has hit for the triple crown since I was a kid.
Miggy is the best hitter of the last generation