Yes, and ever since then he has used various accounting scams to weasel out of paying the judgment handed down by a court of law. That says all I need to know about his character.
It’s kind of like anti-war activists rallying around Cindy Sheehan even as they were starting to get a sense that her shoelaces didn’t make it through all the eyelets. Not the spokesperson they would’ve chosen, and in their hearts they knew sooner or later she was going to do more damage than good, but for the specific moment she’s the one the media attention is on and it is w/regards to the issues they want to publicize. Whatcha gonna do?
That’s what Sharpton does. He leaps on these things so that whenever legitimate concern about racism and the advancement of the situation of blacks in America needs to be expressed w/regards to the issue du jour, he’s already there with a microphone in front of his face. When you singlemindedly set out to get the race-issue spotlight, you tend to succeed more often at doing just that than people whose concerns go beyond that spotlight.
I couldn’t really say why (or even if) most rational supporters of Civil rights support Sharpton. If I were to guess it would be something along the lines of holding your nose and voting for Bush that some conservative types did in the last election.
I could see how you could think that. From my perspective I think its more that Civil Rights have moved forward in SPITE of Sharptons efforts, and that if anything he’s done his bit to hold things back. YMMV and all that…just my own view of the guy.
-XT
Well, I don’t believe Sharpton is really in it for civil rights-he’s in it for Al Sharpton.
Jesse, well, love him or hate him, I think he MEANS well. He’s just an attention whore. Still, at least he can laugh at himself, for the most part.
I’ll tell you what: when Sharpton apologizes for slandering those people AND pays the fine instead of ignoring the judgment and having other people pay it for him I’ll think about forgiveness.
Until then I think he’s a scumbag.
I don’t think his harshest critics think that he is dumb. Incidentally, my dad had him as a high school student in Brooklyn; my dad hated his guts as an adult, but conceded that he had vague memories of him being pretty bright as a high school student.
I’m honestly pretty ill-informed on Sharpton: my impression of him is that he’s eloquent, witty, and dishonorable, and he has little enough influence on my life that I can’t be arsed to read up on the various controversies surrounding him (I think that if I’m to become more informed on him, I’d have to do a helluva lot of reading on both sides of the issue–it’s not like learning about rose blossoms). It seems likely to me that he’s a scumbag, AND that he’s effective, though. If he were ineffective, I would expect other civil rights luminaries to be repudiating him and distancing themselves from him.
Daniel
This is all you need to know about Sharpton.
It’s not like anything has changed since then.
Brick, I am not black, and I agree that Cosby isn’t the best role model.
I still say he’s fifty times better than Sharpton.
As for what I know about Cosby? Shoot. I don’t have the links. But back in the day, the man was Chris Rock. I’m not joking. I have some interviews (buried in my storage closet) from '69 of one angry and righteous man. What I was thinking of, though, was something that comes through clearest at this specific episode.
http://dcexaminer.com/articles/2005/10/20/columns/scott_fuller/36scottfuller.txt
I don’t know. If anyone was watching it, if that hit anyone between the eyes with the point that they have to get off their asses to make something of themselves in this world? Then it’s fuckloads better than the victim-culture Sharpton preaches. But that’s my opinion. I can be wrong. I’ve been wrong.
As far as their deaths? If they were dead, a long time ago, if they’d never been alive?
If Louis was dead, a long time ago, we might still have Malcom X. That’s something worth considering. It’s also a side point.
If Sharpton was dead… well, we might have a better man where he is now. We could hardly have a worse. If he was any worse, he wouldn’t be where he is now.
Also, we’d be one riot shorter, a few people less dead, and a lot less hatred in the City.
Still… it’s going too far. It’s not near wishing them dead now. I’m not. They’ve already done their damage, ruined the lives. I don’t hate them, but I sure don’t give them one ounce of respect.
Far as Cosby? Man isn’t perfect, but he’s concentrated a lot on helping and educating the youth of america, with a special focus on the black youth.
Take a look at what he’s done. Man was on Nixon’s enemies list. Had to be doing something right.
This isn’t even close to impartial… but it’s fairly accurate.
You seem to be saying that 1) That particular case is the only “bad” thing he had done, 2) This is not something that can cause hate, thus 3) All people who hate him hate him because he’s black.
Surely this is the very definition of a straw man?
Your sweeping generalisation of all people who don’t like one man is appalling. Yes, I imagine there are people who hate the man because they’re racist. There may well be many such people. But to say that every single person who doesn’t like him is racist is, frankly, a slander of your own on many, many people.
You act as though merely being an activist means he is a paragon of greatness. I have news for you; people are not merely good or evil. It’s very likely that he works hard to get a better deal, and equal status in people’s minds, for black people. This, i’m all for. His methods, however, are not always to my liking. Neither, on certain occasions, are the manner with which he likes to make his points and conduct his campaign. A case of the “ends not justifying the means”. Does he work hard for his cause? Yes. Does he put his own image out primarily sometimes? Quite possibly; I, personally, believe that of the man. Does he get results for his cause? Quite probably, he has made a positive difference.
I admire his goals; I do not admire his tactics.
So clearly, i’m a huge flaming rascist for not slavishly liking everything he does. :rolleyes:
E-Sabbath, to be fair, the Church of Scientology was also on Nixon’s enemy list.
Maybe it was over the top as a blanket statement, but I think there’s a lot of truth to it. When his name comes up, there is rarely a time that someone doesn’t go into a tirade about what a jerk he is. It’s completely disproportional to the “crimes” he’s committed, and usually not germane to the debate. Yes, we can all agree that he’s far from perfect, and has made plenty of mistakes, but the hatred for the guy is amazing. It’s like he was a dog killing child molester. Does anyone really think there is a politician, or public figure, who has been in the spotlight for as long as he has that hasn’t fucked up a number of times? You can’t even debate something he’s involved in because people are so quick to scream that the well is poisoned. Why?
Surely some people hate him, and others of his ilk, for non-racist reasons. However, I think many, if not most, hate him for those reasons. I think it’s because he presents one of the more authentic viewpoints of a segment of blacks in this country. Whether it’s in his distrust of police officers, his anti-semitism, or his opinion of the role racism plays in society, you can be sure a lot of people agree with him. Unfortunately for him, the viewpoint is one white people typically don’t want to hear, and find hard to actually dismiss when it is presented by an articulate, and intelligent person. That’s why people choose to focus on his fuck-ups rather than the good stuff, or the points he’s making. It’s also why most discussion on this board about blacks, is typically unproductive. Try to find a thread on AAVE (Ebonics) that doesn’t have some asshole doing his/her best impression. Try to find one on reparations without multiple people claiming that slavery isn’t a problem today, because they never owned slaves, mistreated blacks, etc. It’s fucking pathetic.
The question is why does this happen. Especially when you consider that board (IMHO) is typically more intelligent, rational, and liberal than the general population? I have no idea, but the correlation between people abandoning logical reasoning, and threads about black people/issues is astonishing to me. I’m not necessarily arguing that racism is the only culprit. I think much of it is that many blacks people in this country have a dramatically different way of looking that world. They see a world where people being framed by the LAPD , and having drugs planted on them. A world where NJ troopers pull blacks over for no reason. Stuff that white America dismissed for long periods of time. It’s not that every white person should believe everything they hear, or that every conspiracy theory in the minds of black people is correct. It’s that this worldview is completely dismissed, and disrespected by many white people. It’s inconceivable to them that any reasonable person could see the situation as many blacks do, and as a result, they think it’s the blacks that are delusional. So when Al Sharpton states his beliefs, as his did in the Central Park jogger case (when he was right), or with Tawana Brawley (when he was wrong), it all sounds the same to much of the American public because it’'s borne from an outlook they don’t respect.
Yes, I flat out think that anyone who hates Al Sharpton is a racist. That includes every single person here. You don’t see the same kind of vitriol for other people, you see it only for Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson and Louis Farrakhan.
So y’all want these three, who will scream racism from the rooftops to drop dead and have Bill Cosby as the nation’s black people’s spokesman. A clown who criticises black people, not white people for racism and its consequences. While it is appropriate for Cosby to criticise the black community from within, that doesn’t let you racist fucks off.
Let’s face it, you’d criticise Rosa Parks, and many people did in the Rosa Parks thread. With crap like she’s not worthy.
We can’t have black folks bein’ uppity like Sharpton, Jackson and Farrakhan, none of whom are perfect, but to listen to the spittle spewing frenzy about their personal character when they speak out on a race issue in order to obscure the issue is despicable.
Sharpton was in my opinion wrong about Brawley, he doesn’t have the money to pay the award, he is right that there is a lot of racism in America, and he has a right to speak out about it. You racists, and by that I mean the racists in this thread who denounce him, want to shut him up because he advocated incorrectly for someone once and still doesn’t believe he was wrong. Well, by that standard, nobody should speak about anything. Anyone here who claims they were never wrong is insane. Anyone here who claims that they always admit when they are wrong doesn’t know the difference between right and wrong.
When I see racists like Bill O’Rielly tear down the personal character of someone like Jesse Jackson, I know it’s because they resent someone pointing out racism in this country. It’s the same thing with Al Sharpton.
I don’t see liberals refusing to deal with George Bush’s issues because of his admitted former substance usage: they talk about the WMD, etc and reach the policy points. I don’t see conservatives refusing to deal with Ted Kennedy’s pro-health care on the merits: they make a drunken Chappiquiddick joke and discuss the merits of their argument, that we can’t afford it.
But when it comes to Sharpton and Jackson, we get nothing except that they are supposedly evil men, because of the things they advocate and that they are attention whores. Well, all pundits are attention whores. The only difference is that these men have black skin and point out the racism in our country and try to do something about it.
If they could move on to the substance of their argument, yes. But they cannot. When Sharpton address a serious issue of race, his critics refuse to deal with that issue and focus on the Brawley affair and it’s aftermath.
And that is my point, so much more eloquently than I could ever have put it. Sharpton’s critics act as if he killed babies and served them as hot dogs to unsuspecting diners.
I was probably a little more harsh than I should have been in my previous post, so I apologize for that.
However, I think the fact that you mentioned Cosby brings up an interesting point. In recent years, racism has shifted from outright hatred of blacks, to people drawing an arbitrary dichotomy between good blacks and bad ones. Few people recognize this, or view this as racism, even though it is. It’s racism slightly mutated into something more acceptable for our culture. That’s why Colin Powell is considered so well-spoken. That’s why people love Bill Cosby. Because he’s not threatening, challenging their worldview, or speaking about race (until recently). He is palatable to white America. Just like Michael Jordan, or OJ Simpson (before he killed those people) Despite his obvious flaws, he is seen as “one of us” by white America.
He played the game, and got rich doing it. The Cosby show (although it was named after him) was not about the real Bill Cosby; the one who dropped out of high school, shined shoes to help support his family, or committed adultery. That show wouldn’t have lasted a day on NBC. Instead it was about the image of Bill Cosby that the general public would find appealing. There’s nothing wrong with that, and it should certainly be said that any cultural standard that prevents people from being who they are, or who they want to be is sad. But, there was a clear plan of action on Cosby’s part.
Other blacks, like Sharpton, intimidate people, and present a viewpoint that isn’t palatable to them. People will claim they hate him for his actions, but it’s more about him not playing the game. Or, more appropriately, his defiance, and his repudiation of the game and its rules.
Bob? You’re a fucking asshole. Why don’t you just shut the fuck up?
How DARE we criticize a shining black prince like Al Sharpton?
Right.
Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
Seriously.
Shut the fuck up.
Holy shit! Limbaugh, Coulter, Rove and Cheney are black?!? :eek:
So by your standard if a person’s skin is black they are beyond reproach and must never be criticized? Racism is taught best by the racist I guess. :rolleyes:
Are you trying to win award here? Because that’s the stupidest post I’ve ever read here.
Let’s see, a shyster, a shameless self-promoter, and a flat out crazy person. My momma taught me not to hate anyone, but these idiots are deserving of the scorn that inevitably comes their way.
You’re absolutely correct. Brawley and the Fashion Mart are just the beginning of his repudiation of the game and its rules.
LHoD has summed up my feelings nicely:
except that I would add certainly as the second word and remove likely.