Let ‘em. They need to look up the meaning and purpose of “fiction.” (Hint, closely replicating reality isn’t it.)
No, civil plaintiffs go for deep pockets because the main remedy in a civil action is damages (that is, money). Prosecutors are pursuing criminal penalties, so the deep pockets aren’t a factor for them. Indeed, their job is much easier if they can go after poor people who can’t afford good representation.
I linked it. It was just an article I found that was recent and seemed relevant and I thought the CBC was a reliable media outlet. I am not up on what guild/union is what and assumed, given the context prompting these articles, the information given was appropriate.
For whatever reason that is what they wrote.
I’m guessing it’s because there was no actual confirmation that he actually pulled the trigger (as of yet).
SAG-AFTRA is a little less precise in their descriptions of weapons handling (page 11), but they do say on the first page the actor is basically responsible for everything….
Again, Camera Operator who has had guns aimed and fired directly at him on movie sets chiming in.
The actor is allowed to ask to be shown that the weapon is cleared and safe. Other actors insist they be taught the full check out themselves. If they want to be taught, they must be taught and then handed the weapon by the armorer.
It’s frequently “Show me”, and the armorer will open up the weapon and show that there are no hidden bullets, etc etc. Actor see this- and I mean, it’s done 2 feet from their face- and is then handed the weapon.
You cannot force an actor to do this check-out. Some want to, others want nothing to do with the prep. They want the weapon to be cleared by another person for whatever reason and then have it put into their hands.
I did a movie with James Russo. He seemed fairly comfortable with firearms. He was handed a weapon and with the armorer standing next to him, he double checked that it was safe.
Seems to me you (camera operator) should be able to be a part of that too if the current scene has someone pointing a gun at you. (Just my $0.02 no one asked for.)
As a personal, private matter, sure. But from the point of view of an outsider, the bigger tragedy is the loss of a person’s future potential to contribute to civilisation’s treasury of art and science.
It’s rather selfish, perhaps? But when I think of having lost Anthony Bourdain and Philip Seymour Hoffman, I think of the future art they might have created, not their children.
In this case, while I might feel bad for the pain of a spouse or a child, for a matter of the public record, I think the bigger tragedy is the loss of what this person might have accomplished in her career. People die. Art lives.
Fair point. I detest guns. Have my entire life. I shouldn’t be alive to write this post, because in 1937 a Nazi soldier knelt down next to my Dad at the age of eight and pressed a pistol against his head because he refused to raise his hand and say " Heil Hitler". So, I don’t do guns.
On set I’ve had no choice but to be around them. But I’m not one to want training. I need to trust the armorer. Additionally, I personally own polycarbonate eye/face protection and gun range-level ear protection.
I’ve just read this, from a person named Chad Travis. He lives and works in New Mexico.
" I see many people throwing New Mexico under the bus. It’s frustrating and actually hurts to read some of the things being said.
I am a props person here in NM and feel helpless in contending with the narrative being spread. Our film community here in NM is comprised of extremely talented, creative, professionals who love what we do and take pride in our work. As a props person working on a TV drama depicting multiple law enforcement agencies, we handle guns on a daily basis and follow every rule and safety procedure I see people on social media saying they would have done or do themselves or should have been done on Rust.
From everything I’ve read, there was no Union props person on set, the armorer and ADs were not local, and production was a horrible shit show on many many front’s. The local crew that was Union voiced their concerns to producers multiple times with no hint of change coming from above.
I got the call to work that show which I turned down because I was already working. Many of my colleagues in Props got that call but had to turn it down. We all feel on some level that if one of us was able to accept that gig this would not have happened. We know we bare no responsibility but it is a conflicting feeling to have knowing you could have changed the outcome of a horrible situation. Any one of us would go back and say yes to that call in a heartbeat if we knew it would save the life of one of our IATSE 600 kin.
So please when you are talking about would’ve could’ve should’ve, don’t distort the reality of how film crews here in NM approach the job with dignity, pride and professionalism. "
Those rules are pretty universal. Here’s an article about an Australian stuntman being killed by a ‘blank’ gun, describing the rules:
The article goes on to say that the primary AD has responsibility for on-set safety. It was the AD who violated procedures and fetched the gun himself and gave it to Baldwin without checking it. He and the armorer are probably the most liable here in that case, with maybe Baldwin sharing some responsibility for not refusing the gun until it was checked.
Here’s the actual SAG/Aftra safety bulletin regarding the handling of firearms on set:
The relevant section starts on page 13. And hoo boy, did that movie break a lot of rules. Just about all of them, in fact.
If you heard it, I’ll accept that. Reporting on this, as I said, has been awful.
The article I just linked also supports the notion of armorers reloading their own blanks:
FWIW the tenor of that document is spelling out rights that actors have, primarily in case there’s a scenario where an overbearing director / producer etc is trying to get them to do something they feel is unsafe. It speaks not at all IMO to how a court would assess criminal or civil liability.
Jensen Ackles, who was also going to be in this movie, posted this picture from the set. A very ominous and kind of tragic picture now.
I wonder if it’s possible for any of the unions to get together, or for someone to start a fund, to provide for CGI firearms for low budget films.
It sounds like safe real firearms are, understandably, a lot of work and now we know they are far from foolproof. Animated firearms are completely safe but expensive.
Now we’re in a time where phone manufacturers are promoting the ability to shoot actual films on you phone. I shudder to think what amateurs are going to be doing regarding firearms. It would be cool if there was an affordable way to get those SFX into smaller budget films.
And this, which should be about as first-person and direct as anyone here can demand. This was just posted by Serge Svetnoy. Halyna Hutchins died in his arms.
I’m going to back off of this thread for a while. It’s cutting too close.
" My vision of the RUST tragedy
I have received hundreds of calls, text messages, letters with words of support and condolences since the day of the tragedy with Halyna Hutchins, and I’m very grateful to everyone. Yes, I knew Halyna, not for a year. I worked with Her on almost all of her films. Sometimes we’ve shared food and water. We’ve been burning under the sun, freezing in the snow on the shoots. We took care of each other. Yes, I can say with 100% confidence she was my friend.
WAS!!!
I also received many calls from different mass media sources from multiple countries asking to tell what happened; also from numerous institutes and universities for the students to know what needs the most attention.
Yes, I was standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Halyna during this fatal shot that took her life and injured the director Joel Souza. I was holding her in my arms while she was dying. Her blood was on my hands.
I want to tell my opinion on why this has happened. I think I have the right to do it.
It’s the fault of negligence and unprofessionalism.
The negligence from the person who was supposed to check the weapon on the site did not do this; the person who had to announce that the loaded gun was on the site did not do this;
the person who should have checked this weapon before bringing it to the set did not do it.
And the DEATH OF THE HUMAN IS THE RESULT!
I’m sure that we had the professionals in every department, but one - the department that was responsible for the weapons. There is no way a twenty-four-year-old woman can be a professional with armory; there is no way that her more-or-less the same-aged friend from school, neighborhood, Instagram, or God knows where else, can be a professional in this field.
Professionals are the people who have spent years on sets, people who know this job from A to Z; These are the people who have the safety on set at the level of reflexes; they do not need to be told to put the sandbag on a tripod, fix the ladder on the stage, or fence off the explosion site. They have it in their blood.
I’m calling out to the Producers!
We have a fascinating and amazing job, but it’s also dangerous. We film in the mountains, in the open water, underwater. We have explosions, shooting guns, car crashes, electricity after all, and much more.
To save a dime sometimes, you hire people who are not fully qualified for the complicated and dangerous job, and you risk the lives of the other people who are close and your lives as well.
I understand that you always fight for the budget, but you cannot allow this to happen. There should always be at least one professional in each department who knows the job. It is an absolute must to avoid such a tragedy, like the tragedy with Halyna.
I do not wish anyone to go through what I went through, what her husband @Matt Hutchins and her son Andros went through, and the actor Alec Baldwin, who has been handed a gun on set. He has to live with the thought that he took the life of the human because of unprofessional people.
Dear Producers, by hiring professionals, you are buying peace of mind for yourself and the people around you. It is true that the professionals can cost a little more and sometimes can be a little bit more demanding, but it is worth it. No saved penny is worth the LIFE of the person!
And finally, dear Producers, please remember that it’s not you who are giving the opportunities to the people you hire make their money; it’s the people you hire who help You make Your money. Remember this!
I also want to thank the camera operator @Ried Russell, who was with us and helped save Halyna. Thank you to the set medic @Cherlyn Schaefer who did everything she could to save Halyna’s life.
We all loved Halyna.
May God Bless her soul.
Rest in Peace.
And God protect Us All. "
When you have a safety system that relies almost exclusively on process and people doing what they are supposed to do, things can go bad quickly if the people responsible all report up through the site leader , it’s why you have independent HSE organisation inside companies and is where unions and independent outside organizations are needed .
No, that was the assistant director that handed Baldwin the gun, David Halls. According to one prop master, Maggie Goll, who had worked with Halls on another project, Halls had a reputation for arrogance and blatant disregard for safety protocols.
Maybe it depends on the training? David Brown, the Canadian movie firearms safety coordinator, said small, independent studios often simply train on set. If the training was conducted in as slip-shod a manner as so many other things related to this film have been, do the actors still bear some of the blame? Would Baldwin really be toast? (Not doubting, just curious.)
This NYT article quotes Brown as saying
Armorers (or sometimes licensed prop masters) are responsible for storing them on set. Guns are not supposed to leave their hands until cameras are rolling; actors hand them back as soon as “cut” or “wrap” is called and the cameras stop.
If that’s the case, how would Baldwin or athe other actors have time to check to see if the gun was loaded with blanks? (I realize this was a rehearsal, but the camera was rolling.)
Brown also said studios should, “Take the distance that people need to be away from a gunshot, and then triple it." If necessary, put up plexiglass to protect the camera operators and crew.
Oh, and according to this article, Baldwin is “hysterical” and “absolutely inconsolable.” He’s postponed other projects and is taking a break from acting. I can’t blame him.
The thing is, Baldwin was a producer on this movie. If he hired Halls and ignored complaints that Halls was being negligent in his duties then Baldwin could be on the hook.
And so were 11 other people.
Baldwin’s potential culpability has been brought up multiple times. The simple truth is, the hierarchy of responsibility is unknown to any of us outside of that particular production, and we should stop speculating on it. As details emerge we will get a clearer picture, which so far it looks like the Assistant Director and Armorer are the biggest at fault. The multiplicity of producers is too complicated to zero in on Baldwin.