The end is men don’t feel threatened by women in power.
It’s a spectrum. I’d rather men proactively stop other men from being assholes than only congratulate powerful women for their actions. But I’d much rather see men congratulate AOC then say nothing at all. And nothing at all is still better than name calling.
I’m wondering if a man would ever be described as “thin-skinned?”
Yoho’s body language during his “apology” was absolutely deplorable. He kept a condescending smirk on his face the entire time.
~VOW
[quote=“Dangerosa, post:40, topic:916220”]To what end? …
I’m tired of having men pat themselves on the back for congratulating AOC on a good speech…
[/quote]
Man, that’s some impressive negativity!
I’m a man, but I feel the disparate treatment of women - in SO MANY ways - is (and has ALWAYS been) one of the most significant problems in America. I’m always glad when a strong, persuasive defense of my values gets wide dissemination. If I spent all my time dismissing incremental progress, and celebrating nothing other than decisive broad advances, I’d be even more depressed about our country’s values and policies than I am!
I think it truly sad that you appear to so readily dismiss men’s appreciation of this speech as self serving patting ourselves on the back.
Well, Trump is. Thin skinned and thick head
Where have you seen this? Can you provide examples?
You haven’t been in my facebook feed. Its recreational outrage and “aren’t I a good male feminist to acknowledge the truth of AOCs lived experience”
And here, where we are still arguing whether the C word is an appropriate word to use - but we’ve gotten better about the adolescent “hey, boobies” behavior, so “yea, us?”.
Yeah, some impressive negativity. I’m really tired. I’ve been fighting this for half a century now. I don’t have spoons to congratulate you, I’m too damned busy reliving the times I was called a fucking bitch at work while the men I worked with didn’t take action and thought I was thin skinned for having a problem with it or branded me a troublemaker for not sucking it up. Nor do I have the spoons to congratulate AOC, who has just done what every woman who has the privilege (and its a privilege) to be able to stand up for herself has done. To many women can’t stand up for themselves to demand respect - because they are dependent on the job, or the goodwill of their abuser, or because society has told them they aren’t worth standing up for - so they don’t bother. This is my lived reality, has been my entire goddamned life. And I’m tired.
Is that verbatim? Because it sounds like you’re accusing any man that compliments her on her speech of virtue signaling.
I’m sorry you’re so tired, and though I am in fact a man I’ve worked and been friends with plenty of women who have dealt with this crap. I get pissed off about it, and have pushed back on male coworkers, and I don’t expect to be congratulated for it.
But my admiration for AOC’s speech wasn’t, in fact, for her highlighting women’s shared experience, but – again – for doing it in Congress, doing it so vividly, and (most important) doing to to spotlight the vile behavior of a male R congressperson who represents everything wrong with my gender and that party.
That is what I’m doing. Accusing the men of virtue signaling. Because that is all the action I have seen on this topic from the majority of men in fifty goddamn years. And then throwing women under the bus when they have other political fish to fry. Put up or shut up guys. We aren’t performing dogs that get pats on the head when we demand to get treated with basic respect.
That’s exactly what someone who only listens to conservative media would say.
And let me say this…there are a small handful of men who do defend women on this board, eloquently and consistently. I don’t think any of them have yet posted to this thread. Recently we’ve started to acknowledge it isn’t enough to not be a racist, you actually need to be anti-racist. The same thing holds for misogyny. That doesn’t mean the rest of you are misogynists, just that I haven’t seen anything but virtue signaling.
What you’re effectively doing here is silencing men who want to show support for women on social media.
I think that does more harm than good.
Hey, show your support. Consistently. Just not when its popular. And frankly, why are you showing your support on social media - do you have anyone in your friends list that thinks this sort of behavior is appropriate? If you do, what the hell are they doing in your friends list? And if not, what good is showing your support doing?
I don’t understand - are these people you’re saying are virtue signalling the same ones who are disrespecting women, or are they not? I’m having a hard time seeing what your complaint about them is. Would you rather they not proclaim aloud that people should do what’s right? Maybe you’re just not being clear, or I’m being dense.
No, they aren’t disrespecting women…well, actually they are. When they tell me I need to watch something…something that they have seen, that is a mirror of my own lived experience, yeah, that’s a little presumptuous - more than a little. Because I know this, its been my life. But no, they aren’t the ones disrespecting women, those people I am not social media friends with.
I’d expect this kind of thing (misogynistic and aggressive comments by men) is almost ubiquitous among women in congress. Probably a scant hope, but I hope this might prompt journalists to do some digging and find out which men in congress make misogynistic comments, and name some names.
Maybe they thought you’d appreciate it? I know I did.
The way AOC tells it:
Rep Yoho put his finger in my face. He called me disgusting, he called me crazy, he called me out of my mind. And he called me dangerous. And then he took a few more steps, and after I had recognized his comments as rude he walked away and said “I’m rude? You’re calling me rude?” I took a few steps ahead and I walked inside and cast my vote because my constituents send me here each and every day to fight for them, and to make sure that they are able to keep a roof over their head, that they’re able to feed their family, and that they’re able to carry their lives with dignity. I walked back out and there were reporters in the front of the Capitol, and in front of reporters, Rep. Yoho called me—and I quote—"a fucking bitch.” SOURCE
So, it does not seem Yoho was being circumspect and quietly in a private conversation that someone eavesdropped on and than ran to the press. It sounds like the press heard him. AOC certainly heard him. Of course they were going to report it.
If he had said this to friends at a party and someone reported it then sure, I would agree with you.
But he said it in the capitol (or on the capitol steps…not sure) with apparently no effort to be circumspect about what he was saying. There is supposed to be some standard decorum maintained there which he certainly was not adhering to. He deserved to be called out.
I thought it was rather presumptuous. And with it all over the news, rather patronizing to point it out. “Look, human being to whom feminism is important and something you have actually worked on…have you seen this front page article that everyone is talking about?” Note that NONE of my women friends felt like they needed to bring my attention to it… And it makes me wonder if these people send articles to their Black friends about having “the talk” with their children. I really hope not.