Alimony in 2006?

Great Debates
41

The time for that was years ago. Many, many, many years ago.

My dad refused to work, would not better himself, and prefered to live the easy life on mom’s dime. My mom threw him out. Our lifestyle improved dramatically. Quick and simple. He was out by the time I was three years old.

What my mom didn’t do was make a family for him, support him, and live together as one with him for seventeen years. Words to keep in mind are “choice” and “responsibility”. For something that on this long it can’t possibly be as simple and straightforward as you say it is. He was a part of this, too. No matter how much he tells you it was all a seventeen year long accident.

Hell, I’ve dated people who have expressed little desire to work or improve themselves. I told them I would not support someone who did not work out of choice. It’s an easy and obvious ultimatame. It doesn’t take long to figure out.

I know it’s hard for you to look at this objectively, but keep in mind you are only getting one side of the story with a very clear and obvious agenda. To say “she must have been in it for the money” is as meaningless as saying “he was obviously in it for the sex”. Both parties did this for a long time. Both parties were clearly getting something out of it that they wanted. There were various time throughout the process when he could have changed this agreement. But he didn’t. It doesn’t take seventeen years to say “enough is enough”.

Now all of a sudden, he would like to start over, and you expect him to be able to go to the social structures he has built around him, the people who have through the decades come to rely on him, and say “Oh well, you can just start over, too.” It’s just not so easy. The past doesn’t go away when it become inconvienent.

Frankly Foxy, I’m kind of shocked by your decision. At 40 years old, any man you meet will have a past. He will have people he still kind of loves. He will have people he still has connections with. He will probably have other people who have at times been his family. All of those wrinkles on his face will have come from somewhere. But thats also something kind of beautiful.

42

I have a friend that wanted to play Macho Source of All Money and Control with his wife early on in their relationship. Wanted her to stay home with the kid, wanted her to be available to him in the evening, etc. And she was a slacker by nature. Now that the kid is grown, all we hear is how he has to do everything financially and her crappy part-time job is a mere pittance of what he makes, blah, blah, blah. Well, you can’t have it both ways. And if something should happen to him, she won’t have a chance.

43

Well, I guess you can add me to your shock, even sven, because I would have dumped him on his ass, too. Even loving him.

Sometimes you have to do the painful thing even though you love someone…and if I *know * I will come back and resent the situation and him in only a few years, then it’s not healthy to get into the relationship ahead of time. **Foxy ** is doing exactly what the wife did not do - planning ahead.

44

Let me see- you’re “in love” with this man-whom you knew was going through a divorce- but when you hear a *possible maybe * that he might have to pay out an *unspecified sum * for an *unspecified period, * you dropped him like a hot potato? :dubious: This word “love”- “I do not think it means what you think it does.” :rolleyes:

Here is my suggestion. If you really love him, you apologize and take him back, and then find out what the fuck is really going on before you jump to another conclusion. Maybe he has to pay out a small amount for a couple of years, just long enough for her to get back on her feet and get some job skills- and then a job. That seems to be normal, now. And, indeed, that is fair. Or, maybe nothing- who knows? You’re getting all excited about soemthing that may not even happen, or if it does happen may be not signficiant money wise.

45

Yeah, I guess it is better to do something rather than letting it build up and simmer for a long time. I just can’t picture getting worked up about the specifics of someone elses finances when the actual amount of money isn’t an issue and the problems arn’t a sign of fiscal irresonsibility.

46

Well, just to play devil’s advocate, I think the objection is to a sort of unilateral abrogation of an implied contract.

If your ex-SO objected to the deal where he works and she does whatever she did, wouldn’t the best time to object to it be sometime in the last 17 years?

Now he wants out of the deal. She doesn’t. She is fulfilling her “half” of the “contract” - she is willing to continue the marriage. He isn’t - he wants out to marry you. Doesn’t it therefore make sense on some level that he has to pay out to make up for his desire to violate the contract?

Suppose I agree to sell you my house, for a hundred thousand bucks. We shake on it, and sign all the papers. Then you show up and want the house, and I tell you I found someone else to buy it for a hundred-fifty. So I no longer want to live up to the deal.

How would you react if I told you to get over it, the deal is off?

I don’t mean any of this to be personal, so excuse me if it comes across that way.

Regards,
Shodan

47

That’s what I thought she’s saying. Perhaps she’ll clarify.

No offense Foxy40, but I’m gonna have to take what this guys tells you about his wife and their history together with a grain of salt; I’m not trying to be high-handed and all, but people who cheat on their spouses, rarely IMO tell the truth about their homelife…especially to the people they’re having the affair with.

48

Yes, he was and is still married. Hence the settlement issues. He and I were both separated dealing with ending our marriages when we met which was our common ground to start with. I had a prenup before I married so settlements and alimony are not an issue with my divorce.
That is the scoop for those curious about the details.

He hasn’t said anything nasty about his wife. Only that she went through many low paying jobs because she did not like to work. Therefore he provided for both of them as she was often between low paying jobs. I don’t really agree with the contract on the house analogy above. The contract should expire when the marriage ends. He fulfilled his side by supporting her well for 17 years. That was the contract. If someone offers 150K on the house after the contract expired then the seller would be entitled to that additional money. Alimony is nothing but legal extortion in my opinion.
On another personal note, his attorney said alimony is a foregone conclusion. The time will depend but most likely for life unless she remarries. When people are together, they take on each other’s financial burdens. I am unwilling to take on this one. There are no children so the break should be a clean one. I would have never become involved if I hadn’t been naive and assumed that alimony didn’t happen anymore in this day and age. Stupid me.

49

Seconded. I’m honestly surprised that so many people have come down on the husband’s side rather than the wife’s. Not having a career doesn’t make her a “slacker.” The husband is the one who is trying to pull out of his contractual obligation and leave her to clean up the mess.

50

Wrong. The contract was to support her for the length of their natural lives. He’s not dead. He just wants a free “out.”

51

Now there’s a concept. Finite marriage contracts. Renewable every five years. Boy, that sure would make it easier to bail from a mistake marriage. (I think I’m on to something!)

52

Reminds me of the episode of Sex and the City where Charlotte negotiated her prenup with Trey. The potential settlement was tiered based on length of the marriage, number and sex of children, and who knows what else. I don’t know how much that reflects real life though.

53

My vows had nothing in it about him “supporting me.” Being married to me, yes. Love, honor and obey, yes. But as far as the agreement when we married, monetary support wasn’t in there.

Seems like alimony is a little punative here. He is suppose to be buying himself out of love, honor and obey. And while I sympathize with him, the idea that he was willing to support her for 17 years and now the grass is greener and he is jumping ship does seem to imply that as long as it wasn’t “inconvienent” to him to support her, he was willing to, and I think she does deserve some compensation for having her world turned upside down.

54

Your vows didn’t, but the marriage license you signed did.

55

Seems to be everyone is implying the man is obligated to provide the support. Why wasn’t she obligated to support him throughout the marriage if their agreement was that they would both work and she did not. By the same token, if I, as a woman, did not get a prenup, do you think I would be obligated to support my husband in the matter to which he has become accustomed due to my sweat and ambition because he couldn’t manage to keep a job? This thread was created not to complain about what I am personally going through but to get opinions on the fairness of alimony in a world of equal rights for women. I think I stumbled upon some sexism here. Men are lazy if they refuse to work but women are entitled to stay home if they choose regardless of having children to care for or her willingness to take care of all her husband’s physical and emotional needs?
A woman should be compensated if the man backs out of the agreement regardless of cause? If she was leaving him, she would be entitled to the same compensation. Is that right also? I don’t recall my marriage license saying anything about one person supporting the other financially.

56

If that’s what they both agreed to, then yes, that’s correct. If the wife was the breadwinner in the marriage, then she would obligated to support the husband. The point is that they agreed to share their money with each other; no matter which person actually earned it, they both have equal claim.

57

Although Alimony from Wife to Husband is rare, it does occur. But traditionally, we have a working husband and a housewife. “Househusbands” are rare, but they could be entitled to alimony, too.IANAL

58

No, a woman that supports a non-working husband has the same obligations as a man supporting a non-working wife. Both have the option to cut things off before it reaches an alimony-warranting situation. Both have the option of signing an agreement that spells out their obligations to each other. Personally I don’t care who works and who doesn’t- what goes on in people’s private lives are not my business. but once you’ve made an agreement to co-mingle finances and lives, I don’t think you should be able to back out of that when it stops being fun- man or woman.

Your marriage license enters you in to the legal contract of marriage. The legal obligations of marriage are public record, and most of these obligations can be altered with a pre-nuptual agreement. There is no excuse for getting in to something that you don’t understand and then complaining about it.

59

Alimony (or spousal support) goes both ways. Women can be order to pay it to men. It just doesn’t happen as often that way because fewer men give up their careers when they enter into a marriage.

You are dealing with a long history where women traditionally took themselves out of the job market and didn’t pursue marketable skills because they were doing something for the marriage: raising the kids, keeping the home, etc. They gave up a lot to make something of value to the marriage. The men got to keep their careers, have a nicely kept house, and get the kids raised. After a divorce, women would have been dumped on the job market with nothing, the men wouldn’t skip a beat.

That is why alimony exists. It works the same if the man gives up his job to create/maintain the household as well, or should if the laws are written in a gender neutral manner.

Can people work the system? Sure, but the basic need still exists.

60

Okay…I found some info on Illinois alimony laws (my state). It sounds like your ex won’t be saddled with her forever, but it could be a few years.

From this site: http://www.illinoisdivorceinfo.com/candidinfo_howlonghowmuch.php