Should I feel I owe my (ex-)wife alimony?

In My Humble Opinion
1

To make a very long, involved, and emotional story short, every day I was with my wife was torture and painful. I did everything I could on my end, but she adamantly refused to adapt, change, or compromise. It ended with me issuing her a divorce. (I issued the divorce based on the laws governing our marriage, which are not US laws.)

Due to legal machinations on her people’s side, I may have to pay alimony. Pay alimony to the woman who made a full year of my life a slice of Hell. Who caused me much emotional pain. Who betrayed me in many ways (she never, unfortunately, cheated on me - if she did, things would have been easier). Whom I accepted into my life with open arms and an open, loving heart, and who turned around and wounded my heart. The woman who made me increase my depression medication.

She is now an illegal resident. Her people were trying to get her a green card, but obviously the divorce complicates this. Already the process has been stalled, if not thrown out completely. But she’s still here, under the care of her uncle. He wanted me to provide for her, and may try to get such enforced through a court settlement through alimony.

I understand their side: without any support, she’ll be completely dependent on her uncle. If she goes back to the Old Country, well, it could be bad or to her advantage, depending on how much she and her serpent-of-a-mother (widowed) wag their lying, deceitful, poisonous tongues. She and her mother, as it is, are quite adept at getting others’ sympathy.

What the law says (or will say) is one thing, what I want to know is that considering her role in my life thus far, morally, ethically, and humanitarianally, should I feel I owe her alimony? (If someone wants more info, I’ll try to supply it.)

WRS - I thought it was over. Now it’s been resurrected. I’ll need to find a way to remain sane. begins to almost freak out

2

Alimony (in the US) these days is usually a short term “get back on your feet” arrangment for a few months or possibly a year or two at most. The main exception is longer term marriages where the wife has been an exclusive homemaker for a long time (decades typically) and has no other means of support.

I’m not at all clear on the status of your marriage (and divorce )in terms of how it might relate to US law as you seem to be intimating that the divorce was not granted according to US legal requiremnts for the dissolution of a marriage.

Even if she’s a she beast you’re the one that decided to dissolve the marriage. She’s now alone in a strange land. At the least you own her a plane ticket home. If she decides to try and make a go of it here, helping her out for a limited time (say a year or so at the most) would be the ethical thing to do. Beyond that she’s on her own. You are not a lifetime stipend for her based on 12 months of marriage.

3

Thanks, I did not know that alimony could be for a limited time. It was my understanding, flawed as it was, that if I had to pay alimony it would be until she got married or leaved the US. (Although seeing her illegal status, I do not see how she can remain in the US much longer once the court gets involved, who would, I believe, take notice of her illegal status.)

As far as her going back is concerned, we have more than offered to pay her way back. She refuses to go back, and her relatives here and there are doing everything they can to get her to stay here (i.e., get a green card). As a matter of fact, we were about to buy a ticket for her return, but her uncle stepped in and very forcefully said that we will do no such thing. (Not that it would have mattered: even if we bought the ticket, she would have refused to leave.)

(On a related but separate note: there are times I and a few other relatives of mine feel that the marriage proposal was assented to by her side solely for a green card. This is partly based on her mother’s statements along the lines that as soon as she gets a green card, my wife would have to start proceedings to bring her mother, sister, and brother to the US. This also explains why her family was extremely exasperated with how long the green card process was taking, blaming me for holding it up when I did everything I could and had to, like all others who have applied for a green card for their spouse, wait for it to go through the process.)

She is by no means stranded. She has many relatives both here in the US and in the Old Country who care and provide for her. Her brother has a job now (in the Old Country), and her uncles regularly provide for her family. So it’s not like she’s stranded/adrift/destitute/unfortunate or anything.

WRS

4

Just out of curiosity–where is this “Old Country” of which you speak?

You’re not talking about sending her back to someplace in the midst of a civil war or a major epidemic, are you?

5

The Old Country is Pakistan. Where she has relatives who are relatively well-established, where she led quite a comfortable life. Certainly, being married and coming to the US was an improvement, but it’s not like she’d be going back to a horrible place or situation. Plus, with the outpouring of sympathy for the poor, innocent girl ( :rolleyes: ), she’d have more than plenty assistance and support (material, emotional, etc.).

WRS

6

I ask this because I feel I owe her nothing. Yes, we were married and I divorced her. Perhaps some background on the last days might be illuminating.

When she came back from Pakistan, she stayed with her uncle. We went over. My mind was already made: I would inform her and her uncle that the marriage would not work out, and therefore she and I would be divorced. That day, she said she will do anything for the marriage to survive. Her uncle pressed to give the marriage yet another chance. For the dignity of my family and in deference to the honor of my elders, I agreed. (If I had stuck to my decision, people may say, “Oh, look, he did not even give her another chance.” Ignoring, of course, the many chances and opportunities she previously had to show her desire to keep the marriage intact.) My father owned an apartment, we moved into there. Despite her claims, her old behaviors continued and even some new disturbing and unacceptable behaviors rose up. Evidently, she expected me to bear everything and she not change a whit. After all I had changed, after all I had given up, after all I had endured, after all I had tolerated, for her to walk all over like me was unacceptable. The marriage would not work. I gave it another chance, and she killed it. The ending was inevitable.

Considering she did not put any effort into keeping the marriage alive, considering that she wanted me to do all the changing, considering she was the one who made my life miserable while I ran around like a headless chicken trying to make life comfortable and pleasant for her - I feel I owe her nothing.

(While in Pakistan, when banished there, she told my grandmother, in essence: “Just watch. I will straighten [WeRSauron] up as you’re all left behind.” This was my maternal grandmother she said this to, not a relative of her own. Evidently, she continued to plan that I would do all the changing while she remained the same.)

But correct me if somewhere I am wrong.

WRS

7

That should be: “After all I had changed, after all I had given up, after all I had endured, after all I had tolerated, for her to walk all over me was unacceptable.” There’s a superfluous “like” that needs to be deleted.

WRS

8

Have you seen a US lawyer to advise you of what needs to be done for the divorce to be properly concluded under US law?

9

I’m curious if your extreme difference of religions (that you hid from her about until after she was already married to you) played into things.

10

IANAL, but my understanding in this case is she is eligible for a green card.

11

I was referring to this thread.

You say there that she came to America to marry you, perhaps expecting (and having no reason to expect otherwise) that you were Muslim, when in fact you were Mormon.

You say in this thread that she demanded too much change of you, and so I wonder if this is the change you’re referring to. Or at least a big problem area that sparked other problems.

Since your question here is not what you’re legally obligated to do, but rather what you should morally feel about the whole thing, this seems relevant to me. If you (perhaps inadvertantly) misled her in major ways than I think you are more obligated than if you didn’t.

12

We’re missing the other half of this equation, which is her side of things. Without that, it’s hard to say what you’re morally obligated to do no matter how bad you say things were. I’d say that no matter what happened, you were both at fault. You weren’t sure about the religion question before she came to the U.S., so I’m thinking there were plenty of other things that you hadn’t fully hashed out prior to her arrival, much less prior to your marriage proposal. It sounds like you rushed into this, and so I think that both morally and legally, you’re responsible for temporary maintenance until she’s either back in Pakistan or self-sufficient in the U.S.

13

After reading that, I would agree with Bill H. I’d like to see the breakdown of the marriage as a sort of corollary to that whole thread, but from what I saw of your behavior there, it doesn’t seem like I’d get an honest, objective accounting.

14

More stuff to think about:

Here, you say “My wife and mother, both Muslims, have been utterly shocked and upset when I came home with a huge Masonic Bible.” So, I’m further forced to assume that this Muslim/Mormon thing was an issue.

Also, here you said “in my case, the woman is always wanting sex, and the man always says no. I think it’s amusing. My wife believes otherwise.”

So, honestly, I have to wonder when you say that you bent over backwards for her.

Based on your phrasing in the OP, I suspect what you’re really looking for is someone to say “screw that bitch! you owe her nothing.” From this disinterested third party at least, I’m afraid I can’t agree with that.

Also, I find it interesting how you pick and choose from various sets of rules and values to match your needs of the moment. When it suits you to be Muslim, you claim it, and when it suits you to be Mormon, you claim it. When it suits you to claim western values in marriage, you claim them, and when Muslim/Pakistani values are more to your liking, you claim them.

I know a number of people joined by arranged marriages including many Pakistanis. There are divorces, but far fewer than I see in western marriages. This is the case because a marriage in that culture is more a joining of two familes rather than an individualist-based system, so when problems occur between the two people, the family and the culture holds them together. And in fact, you stated this pre-marriage, saying “Like arranged marriages, the families of both sides were involved. My mother-in-law cried with joy when our side sent the proposal - she was so happy that her daughter would be married into a family she knows will take care of her, treat her well, and offer her opportunities she would not have where she is. We were happy because she comes from a respected, respectable, well-mannered family, and she will make an awesome wife and mother.” But then it sounds like you ended things against the wishes of her, her family and your family.

Obviously, I can’t know all the details, but from this outsider at least, this seems like a “you made your bed, now you’ll lie in it” sort of thing.

15

Actually, religion was not an issue at all. For her sake, I abandoned Mormonism, Christianity, Freemasonry (eventually). She came and I became - outwardly - a Muslim.

What changes she wanted?

-She wanted me to spend every waking moment of my time with her. (She said as much.) this also led to her outbursts of anger whenever I went to visit a friend, and, even more unpleasantly, she had no remorse making me late for work.

-She wanted me to pander to her ever desire. If she wanted something and did not get it immediately, she would mope, whine, nag, harass, and become insolent.

-She wanted me to respect her and her family, while she refused to show respect to me or to my family.

-She wanted me to abandon all my friends. (She said that as a married man I should have no friends.) So I visited my friends very infrequently. But this didn’t please her at all: any time I would visit them, she would throw a fit.

-She wanted to pressure me into becoming a five-time-daily praying Muslim (which was amusing since she hardly prayed herself).

-She wanted to start sending substantial amounts of money back to Pakistan.

-She had a constant urge for me to buy her stuff (clothes, jewelry, household stuff) when I should have been saving up money.

-She wanted children, when we could really not afford to have any.

-She wanted to visit her relatives very frequently, ignoring how tired I may have been from working. (There were a number of times when I would come back home from working a thirteen-hour day and then drive an hour - an hour one way - with her to visit her relatives. They never offered to visit us or transport her.)

-She constantly complained about being bored, despite so many things I bought for her to keep herself entertained. All she did all day is sit and watch TV. When I reminded her of the many things she had so she won’t be bored, she always said she didn’t feel like using them.

-If I were a little late to bed (checking email and stuff), she would throw a huge fit.

-She told all of our marital problems - some of which I hid from my own parents - to all of her friends and relatives, who blabbed about it to others. This became extremely embarrassing for me and my parents when respected elders would ask my parents embarrassing questions about my marriage, issues of which they had no idea. We even made an agreement: all marital issues would be kept between just the two of us. But she ignored it. Which also means that most of her and my relatives know her side of the story but not ours because we were not as low as to blab about it to anyone who’d listen.

I gave up. There was no pleasing this woman. Nothing I did pleased her: it just brought more demands and more fits. And these aren’t simply fits of arguments: there was bawling, shouting, screaming, hysteria, paranoia. She simply could not be reasoned with. I dreaded coming home. I dreaded doing anything with or for her, because she would argue about something or the other. I even told her as such: if she wanted me to spend more time with her (towards the end I was avoiding her), she needed to be a bit more pleasant and appreciative. But, nope. She refused the need for her to calm down a bit.

Indeed, her relatives sharply admonished her for her behavior. She promised to change. And she’d be good for two days. Then it was back to the old person. This happened Every. Single. Time. Not that I ignored her attempts to change: I would be extra nice, spend extra time with her when she was good. But she inevitably would not accept, in the long run, her need to compromise. (And a major issue was, of course, respect: I respected her, but she did not respect me. This hurt me but also offended me.)

WRS

16

Actually, my immediate family were practically demanding a divorce. I listened, but then shelved it away. The decision would be mine, not theirs.

Once the divorce occured, many elders said that they understood. Many even said they envisioned it. “She was a crafty, stubborn woman,” they said. As a matter of fact, many relatives said, after the divorce, “Perhaps it was for the best. We could not see how the two, of such different characters, could live together. She was very wily and crafty.” That some of these came from other Pakistani women who were married in arranged marriages, came over to the States, and have successful marriages, that these would say this shows me I was not entirely wrong. They noticed certain unpleasant characteristics of her early on - earlier than I did, actually.

Her relatives, of course, understandably, are adamantly against the divorce. But there’s little they can do now.

WRS

17

I realize I’ve been looking at this from the wrong perspective. Based on what I had assented to earlier - the nikahnama, the marriage contract - I am obligated to provide her a certain amount of money upon death or divorce. Whether I like it nor not, whether I think she deserves it or not, that amount of money is hers.

Darn. But oh well.

WRS - hemachiz baadast’haa-ye Khudavand ast.

18

Ooowee… nothing worse than an insolent woman. Suggest you deal with that forthwith. Has she no respect?

You know what? This sounds like this woman was bored, lonely and felt totally rejected by you. She’s in a new country with a new language and a new culture, knows virtually no-one and has no job and probably no other outlets. No wonder she is unhappy and taking it out on you. What have you done to help her adapt to her new surroundings?

Also just a question here - before in other threads you mention where the marriage is made between 2 families, with the support of them to make it work:

  • and now she’s not allowed to talk about her problems with her only support network? I’m not sure I understand.

Ohh, and I particularly liked this quote too:

19

You married her under Islamic law. You are obligated to pay her alimony. As you said, it is in the contract. Remember that it will be difficult for her to remarry, especially in Pakistan. You must compensate her for that.

20

The problem was not insolence, it was total lack of respect to me and to the people who mattered to me. The moment she came over, she began judging everyone of my family, badmouthing them to me, pointing out their faults. She had no respect for me, despite the fact I showed much respect and deference to her. As people of her side told her and said to me, respect is crucial for any healthy relationship. Yet it she had no desire to show any to anyone while expecting to get it from everyone else. I am not a doormat.

What have I done? I took her out a number of times a week to local restaurants and to Pakistani restraurants. I spent time with her, abandoning my friends and family. (Despite living with my family, weeks would go by when I would not even see members of the family living with me. I’d come home, take her out or spend time with her at home, eat with her, then go to sleep.) I explained to her about American culture. I helped her enroll in an ESL program. I drove her very often to spend hours with her relatives who lived an hour away (while I hardly spend any time whatsoever with my own family). I went shopping with her very often. I don’t see what else I could have done.

When two families are joined together, problems are brought to the attention of elders (older people who have positions of respect and authority in the family). They are not told to everyone. As a matter of fact, such airing of dirty laundry is considered very low-class and disrespectable. She did inform her uncle and aunt who were in a position to intervene, and they were involved and concerned. But she ignored their advice and admonitions. She told many other relatives who should not have been involved. The more people she told, the more people tried to interfere (based on incomplete information). She sensationalized her accounts, interjecting lies and exaggerations. This also made it very difficult to patch things. Not to mention, my disposition towards her turned less-than-positive when I learned that she has been publicly badmouthing my family.

The quote was: “I’d rather sacrifice myself for her own good than see her married to some abusive rogue.”

Yes, this was before I knew her. This was before she came over to the States. This was before we began living together. I had no idea what was coming into my life.

WRS