Good questions. The answer is whatever makes your team look better than the other team.
The Onion:
"Chastising the assembled reporters for failing to cover the story, press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders repeatedly insisted Wednesday that President Trump’s footprints created the Great Lakes. "
That leaves the Trumpeteers with golf and lying. And Trump cheats at golf. So, just lying.
The best thing about the Trump presidency is that it’s creating a more informed and vocal electorate.
Is it tho? For every young person who is paying more attention or skeptical person who is watching more news, there’s two of my parents who used to believe everything they heard on the news who now consider everything “fake news.” Even the real stuff. Except the stuff they hear from This Guy Who Called In To The Radio Show I Listen To.
I get that few people here like Trump.
I am disappointed that this thread so quickly ran off the rails.
The OP pointed to a number of articulate and reasonable statements from Trump supporters and asked for comments regarding those statements. After a few initial replies, everything was an attack on Trump that ignored the OP.
We don’t need to tell each other about how horrible Trump is. We get that.
If we want to change things, we need to understand what is really going on-which means understanding what is driving perceptions. Focusing on facts and ignoring perceptions is going to get us 8 years of Trump.
Plenty of people have, you and a cadre of others around here just choose to dismiss it, ignore it, or handwave it all away as illegitimate because it came from a “deplorable”.
In other words, it’s never asked honestly, or with the idea of actually understanding where the other side is coming from.
Add into that the nine year old “thump”, “der leader”, and “trumpist” insults and one who leans right might think ‘what’s the point?’
But this guy from the article explains it to me better than the example you used…
I’d add to that the desire to get away from phony say-what’ll-get-me-elected not what I’m going to do politician, and it explains my position pretty well.
Then I believe this thread has severely whooshed you. The OP itself mocks these people for how gullible they are. The only way to read the rest is that she is being extremely sarcastic. There’s nothing remotely articulate or reasonable about anything given in these.
But, even if I’m wrong about the intent, I’ll also point out that literally nothing in any of these is a surprise. None of this is stuff that hasn’t been mentioned here. None of it is anything but populism and strongman worship. The good things that happen are all because of the guy you like, and the bad things that happen are all because of the guy you don’t like.
I wish understanding these people was the solution, but it’s not. Not in the slightest. We all understand this mindset. But if we could stop it, then the fight against ignorance would have been won long ago. There is nothing new under the sun, just more of it than we thought.
Our main goal right now is merely a war of attrition. We go after those most likely to defect, hoping to get enough that we can prevent the diehards from taking over. People who fully support Trump are not our current target.
Especially when they are using such obvious motivated reasoning, inventing things to support Trump over that Trump didn’t even run on.
I’m so glad you brought this up. Thank you.
I’d like those Dopers who have access to the NYTimes to go and read the letters and tell us what you think. These writers are not the angry, left-behind deplorables, miners, factory workers or rural hicks from flyover country. They aren’t [*NOTE: Spoiler contains non-PC language. If you are easily offended, do not look. Read at your own risk. You have been warned.] * Mrs. & Mrs. Joe Six-Pack, Honey Boo-Boo, aka trailer park trash.Some of the statements coming from these educated, employed, somewhat intellectual types frankly appall me. They seem to believe most of the hype that thump puts forth about himself. They honestly believe he defeated ISIS, healed the economy, and made the stock market blow through the roof. Hence my extrapolation to assuming he makes the sun rise and set.
Please let’s hear some other comments about the letters themselves.
Tomorrow they’re going to publish letters from thump supporters who are now disillusioned.
Tax reforms for the very and uber rich and corporations. A very small piece of the pie for the middle class. Which are temporary.
ISIS was under 40% of it’s previously held territory. Trump made no change in the way the war was persecuted rather he (or “his generals”) stayed the course.
He also appointed some incredibly unqualified so-called judges.
Good or bad, the agreements are a matter of opinion. Example, the Paris Accord, we’re not out of yet and won’t be for a while. It’s only bad if you don’t believe science.
Wasteful regulations? Can you name any and explain how it’s wasteful?
Childish insults are not pressure. So far, it’s seems to have had the opposite effect with the Korean Dumpling.
What are those out-of-control agencies and just what did he do to bring them under control?
So far, this looks like “Trump Talking Points 101”, not actual analysis.
The letters seem standard to me. They all mention the same things. Like I said, it’s hard to argue that the economy isn’t better when the Dow is a new record, unemployment is down (a record low for African Americans), taxes will be lower for most people, and businesses are giving bonuses and raises.
This is false. Here is a short C-SPAN video of the Secretary of Defense discussing some of the changes made under Trump.
(Emphasis added) To whom?:dubious:
What is driving the perceptions of Trump supporters are “news” sites that spout slanted propaganda and unabashed lies. When this meshes well with the perceptions of the viewer, the viewed material is taken as gospel.
That’s the problem.
Walmart for one.
I only heard one change. Surrounding ISIS.
Which can only be done when the area is small enough. The video was on May 19, 2017. Five months of further shrinkage of ISIS held territory before the surround tactic.
Are you saying that Obama wouldn’t have done that?
I’m saying that your earlier statement - Trump made no change in the way the war was persecuted rather he (or “his generals”) stayed the course" - is false. Whether it was just one change or 17 changes isn’t important. You said “no change”, so any non-zero number of changes disproves your claim.
He continued Obama’s course until circumstances allowed a change. He did not make an immediate change upon taking office.
Of course, it wasn’t Trump at all but “his generals” who would have made the change, possibly after advising Trump of the appropriateness of such action.
Do you really think Trump is a military mastermind of some sort?
Well that’s one business, not businesses. And they are raising pay from $10 to $11. You still can’t live on $11 an hour. And bonuses are averaging $190…17 hours of pay. For the year. Wooh.
I also question the glory of the unemployment rate going down. Even when it went down under Obama. Yeah jobs are being filled but people are still being under-paid and over-worked. Or are more people leaving the workforce and opting for retirement (being that Boomers started turning 65 in 2013), reducing the number of adults looking for work without adults getting jobs? Anyway, people aren’t making living wages. It’s all a mathematical ruse.
In my circle of family & friends most everyone is retired (with this thing called a pension?), on medical disability, or in a job that has increased hours but not pay. The only person I know who is doing quite well is a waitress, who happens to be a really great waitress because she’s done it for over 20 years now.
Anyway, getting back to the letters, I’d like to know where and how people are actually personally feeling positive effects of a “booming” economy. Or are they just basing their assumptions on the color of the stock market arrow?
No offense, but this is really a cop out. You said he made no changes, and he did. It’s best to just admit it, and then move on to another issue.