All things Civ IV

Yeah, I’ve got a dearth of buildings on the whole right now, let alone Wonders. So far having the Parthenon and closng in on the Great Library means I’m getting no closer to upping my likelyhood of getting a Great Prophet. Adding priests would help, but i’m cautious to do so at the cost of research. Certainly it’ll be one of my key goals as I settle into this more stable phase of the game, next time I crank the game up my first step is going to be analyzing my cities very closely.

Good point about the Religion thing. So far it seems that everyone is ganging up on the heathen, India, already without anything from me. So far my game score is ahead of the pack by a 100 or so, but not so much as to be a real target. I have no doubt that on a harder level I’d be screwed.

Inspired by this thread, I started a new game tonight. Me (Rome) and Mansa Musa on a continent together, and my starting position turned out to be choice, with two stone by the early Classical Age, a marble by the end of it and that thing most precious to Rome…iron, sweet sweet iron.

Mansa was doing well, even steven with me until he had the nerve to conquer a choice barbarian city in the jungle between us. Cheeky bastard. Two ivory and gold with that city, and since my Hindu-Jewish legions were marching through the jungle bringing civilization and shaving implements to the locals, well…

Now his cities fall before me. His Taoist majesty sues for peace, but I will have none of it until he is comfortably boxed in on that frozen hellhole of a peninsula that he had the misfortune to be born upon. My legions are far from home, and I am forced to whip the native populace half to death to produce the catapults necessary to the continuation of the conquest. So I shall spare him in the end, so that he may live out his days paying through the nose for corn and swine, and otherwise paying tribute. And now Frederick arrives from across the sea…someone has been very busy over there. When this continent is subject to the glory of Rome, I shall pay him and his Japanese foes a visit.

Am I not merciful?

AM I NOT MERCIFUL!!!

(Almost forgot what a good game this turned out to be. Huzzah.)

Last week’s war between the Grand Alliance of Russians and Egyptians against the infidel hordes of the Arabs and Mongols was so epic and tragic in scope that my computer wept tears from the DVD drive.

Goddamn, what a game.

I seem to recall from Sullla’s walkthrough, something about a civic which causes priests to produce beakers? If that one is available, you might try that.

Concerning unit strengths, is there any attribute which unconditionally increases attack or defense? And if I see an enemy tank right outside one of my cities, am I ever better off attacking it where it is, like in III, rather than waiting for it to attack my defenders?

Oh, and while I’m here, founding religions: Does that come automatically from being the first to reach the needed tech, or is there something extra you need to do?

Not that I know of. Monasteries effect something like that, but I’m not sure they increase the likelyhood of a Great Prophet.

One of the basic unit promotions “Combat I, II, III, IV & V” increases unit strength by 10% each regardless of situation. Though typically I feel that you get better results by specializing units as attackers and/or defenders. The best reason is that you don’t need to spend those promotions until you need them. You can decide to use them as the situation warrants

Absolutely. Units that have poor defense bonuses or units that cause collateral damage on attack are often best dealt with this way. Stacking units is absolutely critical for this reason. Of course if the city has top notch defenses and you’re getting a fortify bonus this isn’t always a nobrainer.

Automatic with the given techs.

Hie thee out and purchase this game, you’ll LOVE it. Much superior to Civ III. As Dubya says, if you don’t spend the terrorists win!

re: Priests and Beakers, what comes to mind offhand is the government civ… Representation, maybe? The one that gives a bunch of happiness in your largest cities… it also makes specialists of any kind produce 3 beakers. If I get pyramids I usually end up sitting in it until I have enough Towns to make Universal Suffrage worth it.

re: Chopping, I try to leave one forest up next to each of my cities, for the easy health. Anything after that is fair game. Even on the higher difficulty levels, I tend to only have health issues when I am late getting to medicine. For some reason, though, I virtually never see any flood plains, so that usually isn’t part of my picture either.

re: Religions, I have been trying a few religious-based strats the last couple of days… and I just don’t think they work well with how I play. Unless I take a mysticism leader and beeline straight for one of the first ones, I don’t get it. If I get one of the later ones, it seems to be way too much trouble to spread it enough to be worth it. And either way, being religion-dependant for income severly restricts a bunch of early-game diplomacy possibilities. The only thing I’m really feeling about religions is that Great Prophets are really good super specialists. Likely has a lot to do with my play style, though.

Played through a Monarch/Continents tonight, as Elizabeth. Trying to work on my early conquering strats when Quechuas aren’t part of the equation. I got pretty lucky and had one of the ends of my continent with both Copper and Stone close enough that I could place my second city and grab them both. After getting used to grabbing Stonehenge and sometimes even the Pyramids WITHOUT stone, it seemed almost too easy to get them with. With choice of government and really early axemen, I absolutely ran the Greeks over, and had the largest land mass of any civ by the time the mid-game had filled everything in. I was well on my way to dominating until the modern era. The plan was to be the first one to Modern Armor, run over the rest of my continent for some military practice (I still had Romans and Chinese to destroy!), and grab whatever victory would get me out of there alive. Well, one problem. When it’s time for aluminum to be revealed, I don’t have a single spot of it, in my entire (enormous) empire. I’m on the biggest continent in the world, and as far as I can tell, we only have three aluminum spots - two on the far side in China, and one in the middle of the Roman Empire. I do a little checking, and while I’ve been dominating the wonders-built and culture races, I’ve been doing it by having two dominant cities: London and York have 20000+ culture apiece in 1800 without really even trying, and none of my other cities are over 7k. So much for going for a culture victory. Diplomacy? Nope, been playing peacenik while I’ve teched and have been denying other civs key techs, so I have a ton of negatives from not going to war when asked, and not giving up tech for free when bitched at. Cyrus has been playing hug-kiss-vote-for-me from his nice huge all-to-himself continent, so there is no WAY I am getting more votes than him in the U.N. Don’t really want to try to dominate over the oceans, so I guess that leaves me with the sissy way out: bringing the glory of tea out into the stars.

… the only problem is that this doesn’t change the fact that I don’t have aluminum. I start pumping out tanks and battleships, as our continent is thin enough that most cities are coastal. I save up a couple of artists. The plan is to make a run for Hun, the barbarian-turned-Roman city that has aluminum one space diagonal from it, while I defend all of the other border cities. Peter conveniently starts a war, and as soon as Caesar’s hordes take to the waves to invade, I jump him from behind. Everything goes mostly as planned; I even sneak around and take Rome. By then, though, I’m not in the best of shape - war anger is starting to hurt my cities, my tank numbers at the front lines are down, I’ve lost a bunch of peripheral health+ resources so disease is becoming an issue. I let Caesar have peace without even sucking him dry - after all, I’ve got what I came for, right?

Well, wrong.

I pop both culture bombs in Hun. Despite an instant 8000 culture, it only takes control of 7 of the 8 spaces immediately around it. What is it missing? The hill with the aluminum, of course :smack: So now I’m sort of floating, with no defined way to victory. By now, I don’t have Apollo quite done yet, and 3 of the AI civs do. I have no reasonable chance of grabbing any of the other victories before a spaceship goes up.

Thankfully, as soon as the war was over, all of my cities went back to happy, healthy, and ultra-productive. Long story short, my sheer mass paid off: I pushed as much tech as possible before even STARTING the spaceship, bought the space elevator with a couple turn’s worth of gold, and did spaceship parts in pretty much all of my cities at once. When I started my ship, both Mao and Cyrus already had 5 casings, at least 1 thruster, and at least 1 other part; I still beat them into space by 5-10 turns. I was saved by a bunch of size 12-16 cities that could do the grunt-work on casings and military defense (once Caesar decided he wanted to go back to war, of course) while my four huge cities (my first two, plus the two best I took from the Greeks; Athens in particular was in an AMAZING spot this game) blew through the hard stuff even without aluminum to speed it up.

A ton of cities might be hard to support before your financial system kicks in (be it courthouses, towns and the techs that benefit them, or whatever else)… but being able to exploit the biggest Civ seems to be my most successful way of making up the stupid AI tech bonuses. (Oh, yeah, in this game, I got beat to Liberalism by precisely one turn, and Mao took Economics with the free tech, which was coming up soon for me. I didn’t need ANY of that free stuff, thanks!)

The other notable thing about this game was the sheer amount of Great People I got playing as philosophical (not a trait I usually use). Not really impressed by their power so much as their utility - got a great mix in just the order I wanted them in, and they were great in support. (A few prophets early because of stonehenge/pyramids that made my first two cities monsters… two scientists after I put up the Great Library, building academies in those cities… merchants and engineers in the mid-game, keeping me rich and getting me every wonder I wanted… plus the sheer number generated by philosophical + parthenon + national epic + specialists from early wonders. Can’t complain.)

It’s actually not hard to bring a city up to 50k culture in a short time. I finished a game yesterday in which I only had one city over 7k at 1800. I switched to Organized Religion so I could churn out missionaries—5 religions had spread to my empire on their own. I got all five religions in my three biggest cities. I continued to spread religion throughout my empire until I had enough temples to buy all five cathedrals in all three cities. That’s +250% culture in each one. Free Speech, Eiffel Tower, and the culture slider provided another +250% in every city, and Hollywood, Broadway, and Rock&Roll were giving another +50% each to the cities they were in. Setting them to produce culture was giving me nearly 1000 culture per turn in each. I won a culture victory in 1939. A couple of Great Artists helped a bit as well, but I would have won before 1950 even without them.

Of course, it’s easier if you don’t have to worry about the space ship. None of my opponents had even built the Apollo Program, so I was in no hurry.

I’m so sick of every game winding up in a Space Race, now I always disable Space Victory in the custom game settings. I also disable Domination too, since I’m tired of triggering that win while gunning for Conquest. :smack:

I’m also loving the “New Random Seed on Reload” option. Don’t like the result of a battle, the gift from a goodie hut, or the Great Person your city just generated? RELOAD!!! :cool:

I wish they’d put in the next patch that one could see the Domination stats even if it’s disabled as a victory.

One thing I’m having problems with that maybe some of you more advanced players can help me with. In the early game I usually dominate, being both the most advanced civilization with reguards to advanced cities, technologies and wonders. All the other civilizations are always clamoring for me to give them this technology or that one…or threatening me with war if I don’t give them cash.

However by the mid point in the game suddenly all the other civilizations take off for some reason and by the end game I’m usually left behind by at least one or two other civilizations that were well behind me earlier. What is happening exactly? I’ve worked things out that I can normally keep my research percentage up around 90% while still making money so I’m researching pretty much optimally. I usually have a reasonable defensive force in case one of the other civs is feeling froggy and invades me, though I don’t normally have the massive military you need to invade another civ that is fairly close to you in technology (hell, even invading one thats miles behind you can be a royal pain in the mid to end game IMHO). I’ve normally got most if not all of my cities pretty much maxed out as far as building libraries, universities, observatories, etc…as well as things like forges and such for production.

Yet somehow these other civs not only have massive militaries at their disposal, they are more advanced and they are getting technologies faster. How? Is the computer cheating or is something else going on? What should I be researching mid game that would let me keep up? Normally I try and get Industrialization asap so I orient that way…should I be doing something else?

Also, should I manually be tweaking my cities or should I use one of the pre-set options in the city screen? Sometimes I click the one that emphasizes a Great Person in my capital (though I’m not sure exactly what that does), but should I clice something else? Or if manually what should I select exactly?

Since I started playing Prince or higher I’ve been running into problems keeping up at just about every level…technology, military, wonders, etc…in the mid to end game. Any advice would be appreciated.

BTW, anyone else find that the damn music is constantly going through your head while you work or try and sleep?? Especially that first african song…I find myself humming it or saying my version of the words occationally. :stuck_out_tongue: Damned annoying…

-XT

I’m not really an advanced player, but I’ll take a stab at it. It sounds like you’re not generating enough commerce. It could be that you don’t have enough cities, or you don’t have enough population in the cities you have, or you don’t have enough cottages for your population to work. What happens is that cottages eventually become towns, generating lots of commerce, which becomes beakers, culture, and gold. It takes a long time for cottages to become towns, though, so commerce doesn’t play a really big part until midgame and later. Once all the AI’s cottages have become towns, it can pull ahead on sheer volume. 90% research doesn’t necessarily mean optimal; I often play a fast early expansion that pushes my research down to 50%, but I have so many cities that I’m generating more beakers than I would with just a few cities and 90% research. When I can get courthouses, banks, etc in my cities and push science back up to 80-90%, nobody can hope to compete with me.

There is some cheating going on, too. The AIs trade with each other at a lower rate than they trade with the player. They’ll give each other great deals on techs that they wouldn’t give a player. And of course on levels above Noble they get bonuses for research and production.

Those buttons affect how workers are assigned to tiles. If you click the hammer button, it will favor tiles with more hammers; if you click the commerce one, it will favor tiles with commerce. The GP button will cause more workers to be assigned as specialists, I believe. I often use it in my capital too, but it’s good for cities that can grow fast. I usually have the hammer button set in a few cities with good production availability and the commerce button set in most others. Occasionally I tinker manually (especially at the start of the game).

Yeah, that does sound like a commerce problem. Focusing on building cottages early in the game can really pay off when they become towns when you hit the middle of the tech tree. Sometimes 60% science can generate techs faster than 90% science, if the 60% science guy has far more total commerce (which is what science spending comes from, after all).

And it’s for this reason that I feel the need to emphasise something said earlier in the thread. Never, ever, ever, trade away Alphabet. If you get Alphabet early on (which is often a good idea), you can have a monopoly on it for quite a while, because the AI tend not to make it a priority. This means that the only tech trades going on involve you, and you can get pretty far ahead of the pack tech-wise. But as soon as you opponents have Alphabet, they can swap techs without you getting your deserved cut as a middleman.